Suppose Abortion becomes illegal..what then?

[rhino 0]

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As an interesting side note... I was raped when I was 18. It was my FIRST sexual encounter. The "glob of cells" so many of you think has NO right to life under any circumstances is my son Kyle. He and I enjoyed breakfast at chick-fil-a this morning as a special treat before school. Most of the time he had me laughing doing his Star Wars impressions. He can't wait to join the military and fight for your right to have these arguments on the computer. To quote him "I may completely disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it!" And no, when I go into his room in the morning to wake him up I am not reminded of my worst nightmare nor do I see my attackers face. I see one of the most wonderful people I have ever had the good fortune to know.

WOW...... Enough Said................ I would very much like to meet you some day. i admire people of integrity and good judgement. I admire unselfish people like yourself that don't make excuses but rather make responsible decisions.

You put your child first.. First class parenting material you are. A first class human being you are...

Thank you for sharing..

Robert

[kpjumps 0]

She MADE her CHOICE when she had sex. THAT was her CHOICE. When we make a choice we must accept what results from that choice. Americans have gotten away from that!

__________

Your character will ultimately determine your destiny.

[PhillyKev 0]

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fe·tus ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fts)
n. pl. fe·tus·es
The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.

How is calling a fetus a fetus an opinion? FACT, it is a fetus until it is born by definition.

Do you honestly believe everything you read in a dictionary. Men and women that have OPINIONS wrote that book.

Just because you quote it in the websters dictionary doesn't make it fact..

Just because I quote the definition of a word from the dictionary doesn't make it a factual definition? What source should I go to for the definition of words, the bible?

Please tell me, what is the factual definition of the word "fetus"?

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Okay. I'll bite (though I don't consider myself the most zealous pro-lifer, as I have drawn certain lines, and the fact that I cannot convince myself that my non-viable child, whom I can feel moving and kick in my wife's belly, is not a human).

What will it lead to?

Short term
1. Pain (yep, childbirth hurts)
2. Jump in the birth rate
3. Rise in the costs of a socialist society
4. Hundreds of thousands of lives being turned upside down
5. Millions of new lives
6. A jump in the value of baby supply company stocks
7. A rise in the crime rate
8. A rise in the poverty rate
9. A lowering of the graduation rate
10.A rise in societal blame

Long term
1. A societal belief that ill-informed decisions have life-long consequences (edited to add - actually, I'll say a societal education that ALL decisions have consequences, both good and bad. Positive choices have rewards, and so do negatives, if the lesson is learned.)
2. A gradual lowering of the birth rate
3. A gradual lowering in the spread of STD's
4. A gradual decrease in the poverty rate
5. A gradual societal move away from socialism
6. A gradual return to the nuclear family
7. A long-term economic boom
8. A rise in graduation rate (see #1, above)

I think that society will feel like a heroin junkie going through DT's. There will be pain, terror, agony. Life will not seem to be worth living for a while.

Over the years, as the individuals understand what the consequences are, better-informed decisions will arise. Remove the governmental hammock, I mean, "safety net" and people will have no choice but to decide, "Can I handle it if something goes wrong?" Then they'll act accordingly.
.

Quoted for emphasis!!

Applause are in order for the most comprehensive look at the after effects of such a ruling. I think we have a winner!

[lawrocket 3]

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You can't legislate personal responsibility!!

Wrong. That's what laws are ALL about - responsibility. Laws determine what is acceptable and what is not. And they do not say, "This is what is acceptable for a figment of the imagination." They determine what is responsible for humans.

Fail to be personally responsible, and you will face the consequences. Fail to be personally responsible with finances, get sued by creditors. The laws determine what "personal responsibility" means.

I respect you, bella. You're a wonderful person. But every time I hear that statement from anybody, I cringe. Honestly, statements like that simply cannot be taken seriously, and affect your credibility.

As it is, the laws state that it is not irresponsible to abort a fetus or embryo under certain circumstances.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Muenkel 0]

When you truly believe that life begins at conception and not at the time when the baby is wanted, you consider abortion to be the murder of an innocent life. So yes, I cannot turn my back and not fight to legislate it. To me, it is just as much a murder at that stage as it is when the child has been "delivered." And no scientist to this day has ever proven that life hasn't begun at conception.

I cannot fathom how anyone who believes in God or a God would actually think that they have the absolute answer to this question. It's arrogance personified.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[misskriss 0]

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The "glob of cells" so many of you think has NO right to life under any circumstances is my son Kyle

I'm glad you made the choice which was best for you. Rape is horrible... I know from firsthand experience.

[TomAiello 26]

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I'm willing to bet Planned Parenthood prevents more unwanted pregnancies than it helps to terminate.

I wonder if PP ought to separate their activities into two distinct sets, one that does abortions, and one that does everything else?

Kind of like the NRA does with the ILA--one budget to do education, and a completely separate one to lobby.

Maybe that would help them pursue the rest of their mission without interference, and focus their "political" efforts on the more controversial bits?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[lawrocket 3]

Now, dawn, let's go deeper.

Would you be willing to accept the (admittedly theoretical) short-term pains for the (admittedly theoretical) long-term gains?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[TomAiello 26]

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I cannot fathom how anyone who believes in God or a God would actually think that they have the absolute answer to this question.

Remove the "believes in God" bit, and you've summed up my feelings on this.

I don't think there is an absolute answer--that's why it's such a perennial topic of debate.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Vallerina 2]

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I'm willing to bet Planned Parenthood prevents more unwanted pregnancies than it helps to terminate.

Great point!!!! Planned Parenthood also helps women like my old roommate who had some weirdo problem ever since she was in 4th grade where she would bleed about 10 times the normal amount 3 weeks a month. The only thing that could help it was birth control pills. She was on birth control pills from Planned Parenthood (her insurance doesn't cover it) for years before having sex. Should someone that's going to Planned Parenthood for health reasons be hounded like that?

I don't see many "pro-lifers" having sex without oral contraceptives, so many of them have, in fact, supported abortion being legal.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[PhillyKev 0]

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The "glob of cells" so many of you think has NO right to life

I haven't seen anyone advocate forced abortion. I believe that glob of cells has as much right to develop as the host organism deems appropriate. I think your choice is wonderful and amazing and the right one for you. I personally would never advocate abortion for a pregnancy which I was responsible. But I wouldn't force anyone to have a baby either.

[rhino 0]

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Please tell me, what is the factual definition of the word "fetus"?

As long as people have varying opinions I don't believe a proper definition exists.

[rhino 0]

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I'm glad you made the choice which was best for you.

Stubborness on fire..

She made the best choice for the child. It ended up being a wonderful choice for her as well..

SHE DID WHAT WAS IN THE CHILD'S BEST INTEREST. SHE PUT THE CHILD FIRST..

She did exactly what I would hope my own children would do in the same position.

The right thing.

Rhino

[lawrocket 3]

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In Reply To
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Please tell me, what is the factual definition of the word "fetus"?

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As long as people have varying opinions I don't believe a proper definition exists.

Rhino - You're actually hurting yourself a bit here (take it from a guy on your side - it's hurting your credibility). Unless you can define something, you cannot protect it. In effect, you are saying, "Fetuses, whatever they are, should be protected."

It's pretty tough to support that opinion. Let us know what you believe a fetus to be, and we'll go from there.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rhino 0]

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I believe that glob of cells has as much right to develop as the host organism deems appropriate.

So you are saying that the BABY doesn't have any rights and that the mother can play judge, jury and executioner.. I see your stance very well.

I disagree..

Make abortion illegal and people will start to be MUCH MORE CAREFUL.....

[freeflybella 0]

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The laws determine what "personal responsibility" means.

That's what I meant. You can't make someone who is not conducting themselves responsibly - responsible through legislation.

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As it is, the laws state that it is not irresponsible to abort a fetus or embryo under certain circumstances.

I don't initially agree with that, but could be conviced otherwise. The law states that it is 'legal' to abort a fetus. It allows for personal resposiblity. The context in which the woman became pregnant and the decision to abort of not is what makes it responsible or not.


(Thanks for the kind words)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[PhillyKev 0]

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So you are saying that the BABY doesn't have any rights

Fine, since you just defined a glob of cells as a baby, in keeping with your definition, then yes, that's what I'm saying.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Now, dawn, let's go deeper.

Would you be willing to accept the (admittedly theoretical) short-term pains for the (admittedly theoretical) long-term gains?

On a basic level, yes I could, however I could still not make anyone else.

Personally, I would love to see society RETREAT a bit, I feel like technology has done as much damage as it has done good. For instance, we cheat death all the time, obstructing the natural selection system that ultimately trys to prevail. We do it in the name of love, science, etc but we still do it.... I think if the welfare system was removed, these effects you mention would happen inevitably, as the government wouln't be funding, birth control, abortions, or even women's health care. That would make us think twice too, wouldn't it?

[rhino 0]

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Rhino - You're actually hurting yourself a bit here

That would only be the case if I cared what someone thought of me? And I don't.. That being said...

I wouldn't tend to use the word fetus. I would use the term unborn child. or baby.

I think the term fetus, where human's are concerned is a cop out of responsibility.

I believe throwing the term fetus around is disrespectful. Disrespectful to the very child tht is being referred to as a thing.. or an IT.

[freeflybella 0]

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In Reply To
I cannot fathom how anyone who believes in God or a God would actually think that they have the absolute answer to this question.

Remove the "believes in God" bit, and you've summed up my feelings on this.

Agreed. As I wrote in an afore-mentioned thread, until I am stricken with omniscience, I would never vote to have that choice taken away.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[lawrocket 3]

There is plenty of wiggle room. Each person DOES have differing views. Parents can enforce their ideas of responsibility to a child. However, the law limits how they can do it (i.e., child abuse, etc.).

Sure, people are always free to break laws. But, they face the consequences of those decisions to break laws when caught.

See where I'm going? Consequences of actions? Personal responsibility? Societal consequence from failure to act responsibly?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Many people tend to forget that except in the case of rape and incest, the woman DID have a choice. She choose to engage in unprotected sex. That CAN and often does lead to BABIES!

Do women on birth control who are choosing to have "protected" sex play into your scenario anywhere?

I don't think anyone said your child, regardless of the method of conception, had no right to live.

[billvon 3,114]

>I think the term fetus, where human's are concerned is a cop out of responsibility.

It's a medical term. It means unborn child. It's no more a copout of responsibility than saying "disabled" instead of "not able to walk on her own."

[freeflybella 0]

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There is plenty of wiggle room.

I think the 'Wiggle Room' is where I'm coming from.

I'll defer.


(When the face of Jim Carrey makes a point, how can you not?)

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi