Lindsey 0 #301 April 20, 2004 I use to have this on a t-shirt. Thought I'd share I will choose what enters me, what becomes flesh of my flesh. Without choice, no politics, no ethics lives. I am not your cornfield, Not your uranium mine, not your calf for fattening, not your cow for milking. You may not use me as your factory. Priests and legislators do not hold share in my womb or my mind. This is my body. If I give it to you I want it back. My life is a non-negotiable demand. Marge Piercy Peace~ Lindsey-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #302 April 20, 2004 That must have been some small print. Did you think people were staring at your chest when you wore it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #303 April 20, 2004 nice. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #304 April 20, 2004 See, that's another difference between the sexes. My tshirt would say... Use my body as you see fit, just please let me know when you are done with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #305 April 20, 2004 BWAAAAA HA HA HA HA!!!! QuoteSee, that's another difference between the sexes. My tshirt would say... Use my body as you see fit, just please let me know when you are done with it. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #306 April 20, 2004 QuoteQuote an oxymoron, there is no 'unborn' child. It is not a child, it is a fetus. It will/would not/ could not ever become a child without the enviroment to develop in, and that is the standard. At the point at which it could live on its own (ithout artificial support)it is a 'child', with realized potential, and has the same rights as any other individual. Until then it requires the support and consent of its host to grow, and the rights of the host take precedence. You seem to think its ok to force your morality on the mother ( the host) and require her to allow that organism to develop. If your morality viewed the wart as an expression of divine favor you'd be arguing it has rights apart from its host too.... its rather simple, edically verifiablle, repeatable standard, that you cant seem to grasp. So, by your definition of when there is life considered worth protecting, you must also be in favor of euthanasia. What about a person who can’t live without life support (i.e. breathing machine, feeding tube, etc.)? Does that person then cease to be human enough to “let live” because he/she can’t do it for themselves? Do you just begin to “call them by another name” so as to make the killing more justifiable or acceptable to most? Just like, instead of calling the ‘unborn’ a child, you call it a parasitic organism? I'm very glad that you don't determine standards for everyone. not at all. Your creating a straw man arguement here, a poor form of debate. that individual already has those rights so you would be taking them away. A fetus cannot/could not/ will not be able to survive on its own without its host. It is never an individual to be granted the rights of one.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #307 April 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteYou'd probably come back and say something like the life of elderly or incapacitated person would then be under the control of his/her immediate family and that they would then make the decision whether to "pull the plug" or not. Assuming that there weren't stated wishes of the elderly person prior to them becoming incapacitated (DNR or do recussetate) (I guess a judge could also declare them unable to make those decisions as well). The immediate family would then be kind of in the position of the woman considering an abortion. In the case of the elderly incapacitated person, their life expectancy is probably pretty dim. In the case of the unborn child, their whole life is in front of them, if allowed to live and they aren't terminated for selfish reasons....just thinking out loud. I'm arguing with myself now....is that bad....I keep telling the voices in my head no but sometimes they take over.... You might then come back and say that the elderly person, if they were in their right mind prior to their present condition, made the choice to DNR or to allow the immediate family to make the decision when the time came. I'd say that the unborn baby never got the chance to determine that or make a decision. In all probability, if left alone (I know there are special cases), the baby would be born and grow up just like you and me. I'm quite sure, if it was possible to go back in time, that they wouldn't take their mother's situation for "choosing to abort" into consideration and decide to go along with it elliminating the possibility of their existence. Is that "out there?" Sorry... how about you leave me to express my own ideas since you clearly have no idea what i'm going to 'come back and say'. I dont try to make incomplete, illogical arguments for you, how about you extend me the same consideration? in actuality, left alone the fetus would quickly die in our atmosphere. It requires the mothers womb to allow it to develop.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #308 April 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteDude...you and Zennister are two of the most "un-American" US haters that I've every heard. And your both US citizens. No personal attack intended. Just an observation. I can't remember anthing good that you've said about your country in these forums. How does that feel?... I agree! They prefer to dwell on the negatives as opposed to doing something to try and change it. What a shame... Yet another personal attack deleted. I spend a great deal of my time and energy defending your way of life, and i continue to fight against and change a great deal of the misery and oppression i find more and more prevalent in American culture of late. When is the last time you changed (or even tried to change) anything? maybe you shouldn’t be throwing stones?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #309 April 21, 2004 QuoteQuoteDude...you and Zennister are two of the most "un-American" US haters that I've every heard. And your both US citizens. No personal attack intended. Just an observation. I can't remember anthing good that you've said about your country in these forums. How does that feel?... I agree! They prefer to dwell on the negatives as opposed to doing something to try and change it. What a shame... ~R+R Well, since abortion is legal in the USA, does that make anti-abortion campaigners un-American? Since there is no death penalty in about 1/4 of the states, does that make their residents un-American? You just label those who disagree with YOUR point of view "un-American". Try reading the 1st amendment again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #310 April 21, 2004 Quoteyou dont listen very well, and your reading comprehension needs work, your assuming far to much to really understand what i'm saying Umm, perhaps your spelling and grammar comprehension needs works as well, in order for others to understand what you're saying??? There is even a "Check Spelling" button if you need help. (Sorry Zen, you know I love you! ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
