AggieDave 6 #1 April 16, 2004 Here's my thing. I'm pro-life, there are personal reasons for that, but I'm not going to go into it. Even though I am pro-life, it annoys the hell out of me at the uber-religious folks protesting everyday outside of the local clinic. All they are doing is making every other Pro-Life believer look like an extremist. So, I'm seriously considering making a couple signs that say "religious extremists" or something along those lines and sitting out there next to the protestors for a few afternoons. Just to see what happens. What do you think? --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #2 April 16, 2004 AggieDave, I'm like you, pro-life (for personal reasons), but dislike the fact that "religious extremists" run around scaring people to death, or actually causing someone's death because of their point-of-view. I have lived in a university town for 12 years and unfortunately, this is one of the most heated subjects that is constantly being discussed, and protested on both sides. Drives me insane, and after a while you just want to tell both extremes to STFU... ~R+R...P.S. My mother was adopted as a baby...I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the fact that a scared 16 year old girl had given my mom up for adoption......That tends to sway one's opinion...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #3 April 16, 2004 I think these people should be attacked with wire coat hangars, the symbolism alone would be worth it. And their damn tax free churches should be picketed and their congregations harassed on their way to church on Sundays, just so they can get a taste of their own medicine. Uh-huh. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 April 16, 2004 So are you really pro-life in that you thing no one should be able to have an abortion? Or do you mean in any personal circumstance that involves you personally you wouldn't want abortion to be involved? If it's the latter, I feel the same way but consider my self pro-choice. Just because I know that I wouldn't want to be responsible for an abortion, and would do what I needed to in order for things to be ok without the need for abortion, I still wouldn't force my opinion on someone else. Therefore, I am pro-choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 April 16, 2004 I believe that abortion shouldn't be an option except in cases of endangerment to the women's life, rape and incest. However, since abortions will happen illegally if that was the case, I would rather women have the option to have it done in a much safer manner, such as what we have now, instead of "back alley clinics." I am not going to preach to someone about it, though, if someone really wants to know, I'll give them my personal reasons for it and explain my beliefs, but no preaching from me.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #6 April 16, 2004 I'm a "little" more liberal regarding when abortion is justified. But I think you're saying that whether you believe it to be justified or not, that it should still be legal. If that's the case, then you're pro-choice. Think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #7 April 16, 2004 You mean a sign with a big arrow and "religious extremists" below it? I like it! The most effective deterrent I've heard so far is a women's organization that donated $200 to the clinic for every anti-abortion protester who shows up. The clinics used to put ads in the paper and offer free donuts to protesters because they needed the money. The protesters stopped coming pretty soon after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 April 16, 2004 Basically I've come to the conclusion that it shouldn't be legal, but unfortunately it has to be legal, otherwise women would be in serious danger getting illegal abortions. Since it being illegal won't stop a lot of women from having one. So in the end, I'm a Pro-Lifer who has come to the regretable conclusion that our society pretty much sucks, but I don't want to see 100's if not 1000's of women hurt or possibly killed through an illegal abortion.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 April 16, 2004 Quote You mean a sign with a big arrow and "religious extremists" below it? I like it! Yup, you've got it Bill. Its even worst that its about a block from my gym and I pass the damn thing just about every day.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodyflight.Net 0 #10 April 16, 2004 Quote The most effective deterrent I've heard so far is a women's organization that donated $200 to the clinic for every anti-abortion protester who shows up. The clinics used to put ads in the paper and offer free donuts to protesters because they needed the money. The protesters stopped coming pretty soon after that. I think that was an genious idea! My problem with the protesters is that not ALL the women who go to those clinics are having abortions, most clinics provide many other services like counseling, prevention, ob/gyn services... and the girls/women are intimidated or nervous at least about their very safety for being there! I think EVERY clinic has policies which encourage much thought about the decision before the procedure including working through ALL the options. These clinics are important to have, and fact is they prevent alot of abortions through education. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 April 16, 2004 Yup. The planned parenthood clinic I took a friend to in college (for the pill, not an abortion) had a whole wall of "abortion alternatives" brochures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #12 April 16, 2004 I agree...I have seen some people who changed their minds about abortion through speaking with people from places like Planned Parenthood...Do I agree with all their practices, no, but I do agree that they are trying to educate young women on safe sex and the prevention of pregnancy before the word abortion ever has to be mentioned. In that way, they are necessary and with the low costs, it is an easy way for women who don't have the resources to get their hands on cheap or free birth control... ~R+R~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #13 April 16, 2004 QuoteHere's my thing. I'm pro-life, there are personal reasons for that, but I'm not going to go into it. Even though I am pro-life, it annoys the hell out of me at the uber-religious folks protesting everyday outside of the local clinic. All they are doing is making every other Pro-Life believer look like an extremist. So, I'm seriously considering making a couple signs that say "religious extremists" or something along those lines and sitting out there next to the protestors for a few afternoons. Just to see what happens. What do you think? go for it! tell me when and i'll go with you... i used to spend a good bit of time distracting them from the women who were already under enough stress without others trying to impose their morality on them.. until you are willing to say "i'll adopt your unborn child" you shouldn’t badgering anyone else about their decisions... the "mile in your shoes" certainly applies...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #14 April 16, 2004 QuoteHere's my thing. I'm pro-life, there are personal reasons for that, but I'm not going to go into it. Even though I am pro-life, it annoys the hell out of me at the uber-religious folks protesting everyday outside of the local clinic. All they are doing is making every other Pro-Life believer look like an extremist. So, I'm seriously considering making a couple signs that say "religious extremists" or something along those lines and sitting out there next to the protestors for a few afternoons. Just to see what happens. What do you think? I bet the "extremists" will accuse you of being "pro-choice" and the real zealots will get in your face. Personally, I'm "pro-life" but also "pro-choice" --- meaning my stance begins, and ends with me (being a guy puts me second to the issue IMO) and it's up to everyone else to make their own decision because it's not my business. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #15 April 16, 2004 I'm pro-death. I want a tee shirt to wear around RightToLifers that says "Thank God for Abortion." The back should read "Prenatal, Postnatal - Whatever." I'm sure that would go over big. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #16 April 16, 2004 Its kinda funny seeing the anti-abortion protesters outside that clinic. they can't seem to get their minds around the fact that not all planned-parenthood clinics (or even most!) perform abortions! When my friend went in to planned parenthood for her exam, she was really nervous and asked the nurse "do abortions happen here?" and the nurse said (summarized) "nope. we'll refer someone to another clinic if that's what they want, but our goal here is to work with people like you, BEFORE abortion is ever a question. There's a difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion. We don't promote abortion here. Our goal here is to make sure that through education and family planning, that you'll never even need to think about an abortion. If you ever come back here asking about an abortion, it means that I didn't do my job today." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #17 April 16, 2004 BWAAAAA!!!! Just about peed on myself!!!! Thanks for that morning pick-me-up QuoteI'm pro-death. I want a tee shirt to wear around RightToLifers that says "Thank God for Abortion." The back should read "Prenatal, Postnatal - Whatever." I'm sure that would go over big. Blue skies, Winsor-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #18 April 17, 2004 QuoteEven though I am pro-life, it annoys the hell out of me at the uber-religious folks protesting everyday outside of the local clinic. All they are doing is making every other Pro-Life believer look like an extremist. Like most protestors, they are simply acting on their strongly held beliefs. Why not just let 'em go at it? Who knows, maybe the occasional potential mother is swayed by them, resulting in a life saved. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #19 April 17, 2004 QuoteLike most protestors, they are simply acting on their strongly held beliefs. Why not just let 'em go at it? My beliefs are strongly held, but I feel like they're making folks like me look really bad. Basically I find it offensive, although it is their right.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #20 April 17, 2004 >Like most protestors, they are simply acting on their strongly held beliefs. So's AggieDave. His belief is no less valid than theirs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #21 April 17, 2004 QuoteBasically I've come to the conclusion that it shouldn't be legal, but unfortunately it has to be legal, otherwise women would be in serious danger getting illegal abortions. Since it being illegal won't stop a lot of women from having one. So in the end, I'm a Pro-Lifer who has come to the regretable conclusion that our society pretty much sucks, but I don't want to see 100's if not 1000's of women hurt or possibly killed through an illegal abortion. Dave I think you've hit the nail on the head for a great many pro-choicers. I'm not personally comfortable with abortion either, but as a matter of law and public policy, safe abortions must be freely available to women who want or need them. An interesting aside is that if you carefully read the Roe v Wade decision, there is a section on the historic background of abortion in America. Abortion was in fact a widely, if quietly, accepted practice until the early 20th century. During the Reform Era of the early part of the last century, abortion was outlawed, but only because it was such a medically unsafe procedure at the time. It was a misguided, if well intended effort to protect women from what was a very dangerous and unreliable procedure, there was no "aw, gee-whizzing" over the rights of fetuses. The entire "moral" argument against abortion is a purely twentieth century invention by a bunch of Bible Nazis withh too much time on their hands. Oh man, do I sound opinionated about this ? You bet I do ! Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #22 April 18, 2004 www.plannedparenthood.org Quote Mission Statement We believe that everyone has the right to choose when or whether to have a child – and that every child should be wanted and loved. I guess, even though you did, in fact, choose to have sex and get pregnant, if you don't want or love them, it's ok to dismember and suck their parts through the vagina. Here's what "planned parenthood" centers provide. Not all, like Nightingale said, but I would not make the statement that most do not. I would at least say that they are considered the authoritative source. They would be who you would call if you wanted one. My wife, a practicing OB/GYN Physician said that all of the ones that she knows of do perform abortions. Maybe they are less likely to perform abortions on the West coast as opposed to the East (California vs. Georgia) but I doubt it. Contact Planned Parenthood at 1-800-230-PLAN, other women’s health care centers, or your private clinician. Planned Parenthood centers that do not provide medical abortion can refer you to someone who does. Or you can call the National Abortion Federation at 1-800-772-9100. [url http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about/thisispp/default.html#Offering%20Comprehensive [/url] Offering comprehensive health care services Each Planned Parenthood affiliate is a unique, locally governed health service organization that reflects the diverse needs of its community. Planned Parenthood health centers offer a wide range of services that may include family planning counseling and birth control pregnancy testing and counseling gynecological care, Pap tests, breast exams emergency contraception HIV testing and counseling medically accurate sexuality education screening and treatment for sexually transmitted infections infertility screening and counseling voluntary sterilization for women and men reproductive medical exams for men safer sex counseling midlife services abortions or abortion referrals prenatal care adoption referrals primary care referrals for specialized care Some points of concern of mine: Planned Parenthood also says this... QuoteCan an embryo or fetus feel pain? We know for sure that the embryo or fetus cannot perceive pain in the nearly 99 percent of all abortions that occur before the 20th week of pregnancy. It is even possible that a fetus is unable to perceive pain at any time during pregnancy. If, however, the ability to feel pain does develop before birth and consciousness, it is likely to happen only after the 28th week of pregnancy, when abortion is performed only for urgent medical reasons. How on Earth can they say or prove this? My wife says that when she uses suction to pull a baby out, not performing an abortion but for natural vaginal childbirth, that the baby comes out screaming and much more irritated than one where suction was not used. I'd say they probably do feel pain. Quote Does an early abortion make miscarriage more likely in the future? No. incomplete abortion — in fewer than one out of 100 D&C abortions My wife said she sometimes gets two visits in one week where women who have previously had an abortion performed at a Planned Parenthood clinic. This would skew their average a bit unless they are performing a "whole bunch." They come back in with exessive bleeding. My wife then has to go back in, perform a D & C and clean up the mess that they left behind. Which also leads to question their safety. Abortions are rarely performed at hospitals but, when they are, they're usually complete and no additional "clean up" work is required. In reference to how a D & C is performed, http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ABORTION/surgabort1.html#8, it isn't as delicate and painless as they lead you to believe in their description according to my wife. They make it seem almost as comfortable as going to the dentist to get your teeth cleaned. You get dialated and suctioned out with 60 psi suction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #23 April 18, 2004 Sorry about all that. I guess I screwed up the mark up in my paragraphs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #24 April 18, 2004 QuoteSorry about all that. I guess I screwed up the mark up in my paragraphs. Someone call Guiness -- it's the world's largest hyperlink! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #25 April 18, 2004 I guess I started to ramble, got carried away, and couldn't keep track of what was supposed to go where. It's the story of my life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
