pajarito 0 #26 April 16, 2004 Quote Personally, I would never own a gun that required a chip to work. Machines that are less complicated are more reliable. Period. Just look at the Glock 17. It has what, 33 parts? It's also the most reliable pistol available. Damn right. My finger is my safety. Simplicity is a beautiful thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #27 April 16, 2004 >So that's why liberals want more gun control.... they don't know what we already have. Personally, I don't want more gun control. I was just suprised that you were OK with more gun control as long as the military uses it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #28 April 16, 2004 I'm not under any circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #29 April 16, 2004 I may have been unclear. I would not be ok with requiring implanted (other otherwise) chips for firearms, anymore than I would be ok with it for freedom of speech, or any other aspect of American life. I was attempting to point out how ridiculous it is to require restrictions on citizens before the military, and that a tool is not better if cops or the military are categorically opposed to using it. Check the NJ law about stupid smart guns, for example. Cops are specifically exempt.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #30 April 16, 2004 Ah, OK. I misread your original post then, sorry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #31 April 16, 2004 Not your fault. I reread it, and you were right, I can see how it could come across how I did not intend. That interpretation would be a bit out of character for me, now wouldn't it?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 April 16, 2004 Quote>There's no fire or anger in me. I would not presume to know the inner workings of your mind. That's what you seemed to be doing with your story about the man who kept the rope to keep the fire alive. QuoteI do find it odd, though, that all the news stories you post are things that seem to anger you (or at least things you object to.) I prefer to discuss significant things, rather than how drunk I was last weekend, what colors I should get on my next rig, or what I'm watching on TV. Would it make everyone feel better if I posted a bunch of useless threads in Bonfire, you know, the warm fuzzy feel-good kind, that really don't say anything, nor make anyone think? Hmmm, maybe I'll try it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #33 April 16, 2004 Quote>So that's why liberals want more gun control.... they don't know what we already have. Personally, I don't want more gun control. I was just suprised that you were OK with more gun control as long as the military uses it too. The point is, for me, that when the technology becomes reliable enough that the police and/or military are willing to trust their lives to it, then we can consider it for civilians. However, civilians should not have unreliable technology forced upon them, jeopardizing their safety, while the police and/or military are exempt from the same standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #34 April 17, 2004 Quote>So that's why liberals want more gun control.... they don't know what we already have. Personally, I don't want more gun control. I was just suprised that you were OK with more gun control as long as the military uses it too. I believe that the point has more to do with whether these systems will be reliable and whether they will adequately and safely serve the user -- particularly at crunch-time when the firearm is brought to bear. If the police and military REFUSE to use these guns (and they have already in some jurisdictions indicated that attitude is prevalent) specifically because of the risk of failure ending up having catastrophic results, then it is not fair to force civilians to use only these guns. The point is, "You first, Mr. Government Agent Person; and if you're willing to wager your life on this machine's reliability, then maybe I'll consider being so bound." --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base704 0 #35 April 17, 2004 Fuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Especially handguns.You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #36 April 17, 2004 QuoteFuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Especially handguns. Yeah, drive the commercial gun industry underground, with no oversight! That'll solve all our problems...not. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #37 April 17, 2004 >However, civilians should not have unreliable technology forced upon > them, jeopardizing their safety, while the police and/or military are > exempt from the same standard. I still don't get it. You'd be OK with mandatory anthrax vaccinations and urine testing because the military does that? Seems like a poor standard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #38 April 17, 2004 Quote>However, civilians should not have unreliable technology forced upon > them, jeopardizing their safety, while the police and/or military are > exempt from the same standard. I still don't get it. You'd be OK with mandatory anthrax vaccinations and urine testing because the military does that? Seems like a poor standard. How the hell did you make that quantum leap of logic? As far as I'm concerned, if he made a statement about one issue, that does not prejudice his feelings or his right to believe differently about any other subject. Could you show us where he said that because he sets the benchmark on whether the police and military are willing to use smart guns, he is willing to have everything else that is forced upon military personnel to be forced on civilians? Get a grip, Bill! --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #39 April 17, 2004 QuoteFuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Great idea! It has no basis in reality, but still, it really sounds good! Let's just throw them all to the bottom of the sea! . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #40 April 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteFuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Great idea! It has no basis in reality, but still, it really sounds good! Let's just throw them all to the bottom of the sea! Yeah, let's do that! It's worked so well for England and Australia!witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #41 April 18, 2004 Would that be England, Great Britain or UK?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #42 April 18, 2004 Well, it worked so well for all three, smartass. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #43 April 18, 2004 > Could you show us where he said that because he sets the > benchmark on whether the police and military are willing to use > smart guns, he is willing to have everything else that is forced upon > military personnel to be forced on civilians? He didn't say "smart guns." He said "unreliable technology." Anthrax vaccinations are somewhat unreliable in that they make a lot of people sick, and standard urine testing has a moderately high false positive rate. He suggests that it is more OK to have unreliable technology forced on people if the military/police are using the same technology. I don't think it's OK in either case. It is silly to say that the applicability of something to a military environment has anything to do with whether it should be mandatory for civilians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #44 April 18, 2004 Quote> Could you show us where he said that because he sets the > benchmark on whether the police and military are willing to use > smart guns, he is willing to have everything else that is forced upon > military personnel to be forced on civilians? He didn't say "smart guns." He said "unreliable technology." Anthrax vaccinations are somewhat unreliable in that they make a lot of people sick, and standard urine testing has a moderately high false positive rate. He suggests that it is more OK to have unreliable technology forced on people if the military/police are using the same technology. I don't think it's OK in either case. It is silly to say that the applicability of something to a military environment has anything to do with whether it should be mandatory for civilians. I think you're misreading his meaning. I take him to mean NOT that "anything that's okay to force on the military is then okay to force on civilians," I take him to mean that it's way out of line to force something on the public that the police and military are themselves not willing to be subject to. That's not the same thing as saying that as long as the military's willing to have it done, civilians should be also.-Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #45 April 18, 2004 >I take him to mean that it's way out of line to force something on > the public that the police and military are themselves not willing to > be subject to. And therefore it's less out of line to force something on the public that the police and military are willing to be subject to? I disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #46 April 18, 2004 Well, it wasn't a supreme court justice, but it wasn't a company rep either. It was the owner of some club. Another example of a rich, "progressive," "enlightened" person who knows better exactly whats good for us. Quote Chase is director of the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #47 April 18, 2004 QuoteFuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Especially handguns. I think every person who is able to pass a certain basic intelligence and mental stability test should be REQUIRED to carry a handgun. And we should wear them wild west style. Some bonehead decides to rob a grocery market and he comes in armed and 50 people pull out handguns. I like THAT idea. And if you are caught walking in public without your firearm you get a 50 dollar fine. I think we should ban unarmed citizens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #48 April 18, 2004 Anyone else remember that scene from Predator 2? (replace grocery store with subway)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #49 April 18, 2004 Trying to remember it, but I only saw it once. Oh well, guess I know what I'll be buying this week. Thanks, there goes one jump ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #50 April 18, 2004 QuoteFuck it. I think we should just ban all firearms. Especially handguns. England has already done that, about five years ago. The results: their gun crime has gone up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
