JohnRich 4 #1 April 13, 2004 In the news: BRITAIN'S BIG BROTHER Day after day, and sometimes late into the night, Felix Codrington watches the people of Wandsworth. The 48-year-old is one of three local government officials charged with monitoring the 567 cameras that scan the streets and other public areas of the London borough. "We don't miss much," says Codrington, twiddling the joystick on his desk. "We've got cameras all over the place now." The same goes for the rest of Britain. Over the last three years, the number of closed-circuit television cameras here has quadrupled to more than 4 million, making this the most watched country in the world, experts say. Many Britons now go about their daily lives like contestants in a reality-TV show, with cameras tracking their every move on residential and commercial streets, on buses, trains and subways, in offices, pubs and malls, even in churches and schools. Experts calculate that the average commuter in London is filmed 300 times a day... Why are the British so willing to be watched? Some academics blame the country's lack of a written constitution for creating a culture in which citizens are less aware of their rights... Experts say surveillance cameras have helped cut crime in multistory parking structures and have helped police make arrests. Surveillance footage has served as evidence in court. Most research suggests, however, that CCTV has less impact on overall crime rates than its supporters claim. A British government study in the late 1990s concluded that better street lighting was four times more effective. The invasion of privacy sometimes ruins lives. In Manchester, a TV show broadcast a CCTV still of a man accused of using a stolen bank card. It later turned out that the camera operator had submitted the wrong photo, but the apology came too late. The man lost his job and eventually suffered a nervous breakdown... Studies have also shown that CCTV operators are not always as benign as the public might hope. Stores have used surveillance technology to analyze customers' buying habits or to remove teenage boys and other "undesirables" from the premises, even if they had done nothing wrong. Some operators have targeted ethnic minorities, researchers say. Others have spent a disproportionate amount of time tracking attractive, young women. At the Wandsworth control center, the potential for abuse is plain to see. Some of the cameras can pan across windows and peer into private apartments. The only protection residents have from snooping is a promise from the Wandsworth council that its operators will never focus on homes. In the CCTV control room, the staff has little time for the critics. "I don't see a problem with the cameras," Codrington says. "If you're not breaking the law, then you have nothing to hide, right?" Full Story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #2 April 13, 2004 Stand By: It's on the way here. It's called "Democrat"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #3 April 14, 2004 Er... last time I looked, you were from Texas, not England... Worry about your own problems - this really is not a big issue in the UK, not compared to immigration, education and the health service. In short, there are lots of cameras... so what? You don't want them watching you, don't visit!*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #4 April 14, 2004 QuoteWorry about your own problems Look at the bigger picture. By examining the success, or failure, of programs like this, other societies can comment, discuss, and evaluate, a 'solution' such as this for use in their land. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #5 April 14, 2004 Its just the speed cameras that piss me off Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #6 April 14, 2004 QuoteWorry about your own problems - this really is not a big issue in the UK, not compared to immigration, education and the health service This is a pretty laughable response given how much you enjoy posting your own opinions regarding US issues . . . thanks for brightening up my day. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #7 April 14, 2004 QuoteStand By: It's on the way here. It's called "Democrat" _____________??? why would a thing like this be a democrat or republican thing? I'm not sure what you're thinking of here. I know that some cities in the US are using cameras to trap speeders, but why do you think this is a particularly democrat thing to do? I don't see a correllation with one party or the other. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #8 April 14, 2004 QuoteQuoteWorry about your own problems - this really is not a big issue in the UK, not compared to immigration, education and the health service This is a pretty laughable response given how much you enjoy posting your own opinions regarding US issues . . . thanks for brightening up my day. Really? When? Go on, give me two quotes...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #9 April 14, 2004 Damn. Guess I better stop having sex outside. Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #10 April 14, 2004 Hi John, you posted the article but never commented on it . Are you for or against the cameras. These camera do cut down crime in city centres and help police catch criminals and terrorist. They also help with finding lost children watching drug dealers monitoring terrorist without thier knowlage. You may think thats it's an abuse of civil liberties but most people here don't have a problem with them.---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #11 April 14, 2004 Och, I reckon if we had better gun laws, and more citizens carrying assault weapons for self defence and sporting purposes, we probably wouldn't need as many security cameras......-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #12 April 14, 2004 LOL , don't get them started on guns they are a bit touchy on that subject---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #13 April 14, 2004 John, John John..................LOL You don't get I do you? Do you think that that is the limit of the survellance over here? Have you heard about MANDRAKE? or ECHELON? Mandrake is a neural network based product which provides an ability to recognise faces by comparing templates. The system can take into account variations of head orientation, lighting conditions, skin colour, spectacles, make-up and earrings, facial expressions, facial hair and ageing. In a secure access environment, for example, no special skills are needed to compare faces if a face recognition system fails, unlike all other specialist scanning systems. Facial recognition is also the only biometric technique which can be applied covertly. A 'gallery' if images can then be displayed of the ‘top ten’ by confidence factor. Mandrake has many applications for Law and Order, Access Control, CCTV Monitoring and other security systems Mandrake is up and running in Britan and has been for years they're using on our streets John. ECHELON listens and filters ALL our phone calls every single one John! And our Security Service checks ALL our E mails as well John! And still thats just the tip of the Iceberg! Want to see how far the rabbit hole goes John???? http://www.spy.org.uk/n-mandrake.htm http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199900/ldbills/061/2000061.htm http://tash.gn.apc.org/face_rec.htm http://www.rgnetworks.co.uk/numberplate1.html http://www.spy.org.uk/atpc.htm http://www.iwar.org.uk/sigint/resources/stoa/stoa-atpc-so.htm http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl/cc_fact_sheet_enforcement.shtml http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0%2C3858%2C4601963-103630%2C00.html http://www.cndyorks.gn.apc.org/mhs/index.htm http://www.guardian.co.uk/bigbrother/privacy/ And guess what John? We don't even care! We just want to be able to drink our tea John. Its true, drink our tea while watching cricket under a framed picture of HER BRITANIC MAJESTY looking down upon us from the wall, God Bless her, as we slurp our tea and warm beer through our crooked yellow teeth and reminise about the days when we were allowed to keep grandads souviner Luger under our pillows to shoot burglars with. I've got to stop now John, I've gone all misty eyed at the memorys.............I'm all choked up John, I really am.......i'm off to sweep a chimney Guv'ner xWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 April 14, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteWorry about your own problems - this really is not a big issue in the UK, not compared to immigration, education and the health service This is a pretty laughable response given how much you enjoy posting your own opinions regarding US issues . . . thanks for brightening up my day. Really? When? Go on, give me two quotes... Thread: Photos from Iraq Quote: "You are mistaken - it was issued by an Iraqi judge in an Iraqi court for the public murder of a fellow Iraqi cleric ..." Are you an Iraqii citizen? If not, what are you doing talking about Iraq? Thread: Photos from Iraq Quote: "There are 300 troops from the Dominican republic actually - and given the size of their army, I would say that that is a significant committment..." Are you a citizen of the Dominican Republic? If not, what are you doing talking about their troop commitment? Thread: 12 Marines Killed in Iraq Quote: "the Shi'a are the only ones involved in an uprising. The Sunni situation has arisen because of the attack on 4 x civilian security guys in Fallujah. The current violence is the US reprisal for that. The Sunni have not risen up as such." Yada yada yada... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #15 April 14, 2004 not sure if you are replying to me , but lets get a few things straight. I hate Tea I Fucking Hate Cricket She 's not my Queen And I prefer a nice cold Stella to the warm cloudy stuff they try to pass off as beer down here. I never clicked on your links coz there not clicky , but did you remember to add the automatic registration plate reader the cops (some of them) have in their cars. tcan read your plate and sounds a warning if you (the registered owner) doesn't have insurance or if the car is not taxed. They have been reading our emails and listening in to our phones for years (mendwith hills) if i'm not mistakanen---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 April 15, 2004 QuoteIts just the speed cameras that piss me off In the news: 'Big Brother' is watching your driving behaviour CCTV cameras will be used to catch drivers carrying out offences such as defying no-entry signs, wrongly driving into a box junction or performing illegal U-turns. "The aim of the scheme is to stop our roads from being clogged up. Diane Kendall, of minicab firm Kendall Cars, said: "This all seems very much like Big Brother to me. "I don't know how much this is to do with finance or how much it is to do with keeping the traffic flowing. It is expected that about 20 motorists a day may be caught breaking the law and end up receiving a fine through the post. The council says it will spend the cash raised on a transport initiative. Full Story Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #17 April 15, 2004 QuoteOch, I reckon if we had better gun laws, and more citizens carrying assault weapons for self defence and sporting purposes, we probably wouldn't need as many security cameras... Correct. Here in the U.S., 38 states now issue concealed handgun licenses. And crime has gone down every year for 10 years. Even if you don't believe that the former led to the latter, at the least you can't logically claim that putting more guns on the street made things worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #18 April 15, 2004 QuoteAre you an Iraqii citizen? If not, what are you doing talking about Iraq? There's been commentary about the US also, negative of course, but I was gonna let him look back on his own threads . . . . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 137 #19 April 15, 2004 QuoteStand By: It's on the way here. It's called "Democrat" Lets's see, a Republican controlled Congress passes the "Patriot Act" which is signed into law by a Republican president. Your comment is asinine.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #20 April 15, 2004 I think you missed the point, John, as Jamile put it, we don't care, so why should you?.I actually have 2 motion activated cameras watching the car park of the doctor's surgery next door to my house. This is where the no good punk kids from the village hang out, as they have nowhere else to go. I'm pretty sure if the cameras weren't there, the surgery would be well tagged by now. As it is, the no good punk kids don't/can't get up to any malice. If the cameras catch me mowing the lawn, fixing the braai, or sipping my beer before it gets cold, then so what? What is the alternative, live in a 'secure village' type estate that are very common in the US? No thanks, I've tried that and didn't really feel any security.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #21 April 15, 2004 QuoteThread: Photos from Iraq Quote: "You are mistaken - it was issued by an Iraqi judge in an Iraqi court for the public murder of a fellow Iraqi cleric ..." Are you an Iraqii citizen? If not, what are you doing talking about Iraq? Thread: Photos from Iraq Quote: "There are 300 troops from the Dominican republic actually - and given the size of their army, I would say that that is a significant committment..." Are you a citizen of the Dominican Republic? If not, what are you doing talking about their troop commitment? Thread: 12 Marines Killed in Iraq Quote: "the Shi'a are the only ones involved in an uprising. The Sunni situation has arisen because of the attack on 4 x civilian security guys in Fallujah. The current violence is the US reprisal for that. The Sunni have not risen up as such." Yada yada yada... I love it when a plan comes together! My post referred to US issues... last time I looked, Iraq was an issue for pretty much everyone, and certainly for the UK, which is also identified as one of the two occupying powers in Iraq under the Geneva convention... So does this make me more qualified than you to comment? Perhaps not - but I think the minor fact that I am sitting in the middle of the Coalition HQ in Baghdad, and (no offence intended) probably know more ground truth about what is going on here than anyone else on this website... probably does make me more qualified... I think that the things I commented on are probably more of an issue to me than they are to you, regardless of nationality... Do you take your humble pie with fresh cream or ice cream?*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #22 April 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteAre you an Iraqii citizen? If not, what are you doing talking about Iraq? There's been commentary about the US also, negative of course, but I was gonna let him look back on his own threads . . . I don't remember anything negative about the US... why would there be? I am effectively supporting your cause by being here...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #23 April 15, 2004 'I hate Tea I Fucking Hate Cricket She 's not my Queen And I prefer a nice cold Stella to the warm cloudy stuff they try to pass off as beer down here.' Now you can see why they wrote the second verse of the national anthem.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottishJohn 25 #24 April 15, 2004 and it's not my national anthem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you think my attitude stinks you should smell my fingers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #25 April 15, 2004 Sadly, our national anthem laments thepweriod when we tried to put the rightful king on the throne. Curiously around about the time when God Save the Queen was written.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
