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JohnRich

Random Stops for DNA Samples

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In the news, from Charlottesville, Virginia:

Michael Townes was walking home on Jefferson Park Avenue when a police car stopped and two officers emerged.

"Hold out your hands," one told Townes, a University of Virginia senior. The officer told Townes they were investigating a report that a man matching his description had followed a girl in a threatening manner. Police asked to obtain a sample of his DNA using a cheek swab. Townes refused, he said, because he found it "degrading" and because he believed the police were violating his rights.

Such incidents have prompted some U.Va. students and faculty members to criticize methods used by authorities as they search for a rapist who has assaulted at least six local women. They question whether selective DNA testing, which has eliminated 572 black men from being considered suspects in the investigation, is constitutional...

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So I'm curious, John, what's your opinion on this?

Personally, I'm with Michael Townes. Whatever happened to the 4th amendment? Would this constitute an illegal search?
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

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So I'm curious, John, what's your opinion on this?



I'm agin' it. I shouldn't have to prove myself innocent, of a crime for which I'm not even charged.

I believe that "probable cause" should be required, supported by some kind of investigation and evidence, and a judge's approval, before such a thing can be forced upon you.

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While I was aware that federal law allows for involuntary testing of federal inmates who have convicted of certain violent federal crimes (bank robbery, murder, rape, etc.), I was unaware of any local laws which would allow for involuntary DNA testing.

Very interesting...I would assume this will be tested in court.

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I don't see the problem. The police asked for DNA, he refused, end of story. It's no different than a cop asking you if he can come inside your home and take a look around while responding to a nearby call or something.

They can ask all they want, but not force the issue unless they have a warrant.

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They can ask all they want, but not force the issue unless they have a warrant.



Yeah, and then they come in and smash everything to pieces. Not because they think they'll find anything, but just to get you back for standing up for your right to be secure in your home. Happens all the time.

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I don't see the problem. The police asked for DNA, he refused, end of story. It's no different than a cop asking you if he can come inside your home and take a look around while responding to a nearby call or something.

They can ask all they want, but not force the issue unless they have a warrant.



I agree with you. It's the cops job to gather evidence. They can ask for you to voluntarily give them anything they want. And you have the right to refuse. If it were a court order requiring DNA samples with no probably cause, I'd be worried, but this sounds like standard police protocol. If you're worried about this, it should really bother you if the police ask you "if you did it". A confession is way more damaging than a DNA sample. But they both have constitutional protections that I don't see being violated here.

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News update:

"A broad DNA dragnet that has led to testing of 197 black men in the hunt for a black serial rapist will be curtailed in reaction to criticism from black leaders and others.

"City Police Chief Timothy Longo said yesterday that he will use more stringent criteria in the future to approach black men for DNA samples as part of the investigation."

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I don't see the problem. The police asked for DNA, he refused, end of story. It's no different than a cop asking you if he can come inside your home and take a look around while responding to a nearby call or something.

They can ask all they want, but not force the issue unless they have a warrant.



I agree with you. It's the cops job to gather evidence. They can ask for you to voluntarily give them anything they want. And you have the right to refuse.



Just as courts have said the police must "mirandize" arrestees because there is no guarantee they are fully aware of their rights when arrested, I believe many people who are "asked" (in the setting of what seems like an arrest: "Hold out your hands"?!) to submit DNA will not be aware that they can legally refuse. And who does not believe that the cops would perhaps then threaten to "find" something in the suspect's pockets, or otherwise harass him or haul him away for something that they otherwise would not have?

If they want someone to "volunteer" their DNA, they ought not to be doing it in the form of what seems like an arrest stop; they ought to do it in the form of a letter to the person's home address requesting that they contact the police department.

I agree that this whole "proving yourself innocent" thing is bullshit that must stop!
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"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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