Ripple 0 #51 April 13, 2004 Quotehaving taught elementary school, I would concur with that assessment. 12 year olds can't even plan ahead for next week, much less truly understand the consequences for committing a crime. there has to be a better alternative. Letting them off completely isn't a good idea, but neither is letting them rot in jail. they're just kids. Hang on, what about Jon Venables and Robert Thompson? You're surely not suggesting they should have been dealt with differently, that they couldn't be responsible for their actions because they couldn't understand the consequences?????Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #52 April 13, 2004 that's exactly what I'm suggesting. they're CHILDREN. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripple 0 #53 April 13, 2004 Quotethat's exactly what I'm suggesting. they're CHILDREN. Bloody hell, never have I been more grateful to be English. Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #54 April 13, 2004 Seems like those two 10 year olds were able to plan out that murder pretty well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #55 April 13, 2004 Quotehaving taught elementary school, I would concur with that assessment. 12 year olds can't even plan ahead for next week, much less truly understand the consequences for committing a crime. there has to be a better alternative. Letting them off completely isn't a good idea, but neither is letting them rot in jail. they're just kids. To Nightingale and SkyDekker - what do you suggest that we do when people under 12 commit heinous crimes such as murder. Personally, I don't think that their age is important. In most cases, they most certainly are aware that what they are doing is morally wrong. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #56 April 13, 2004 Like I said in my previous post... I don't know what ought to be done. I just know the current way of doing things probably isn't right. Kids, while they may recognize that what they're doing is wrong, don't always recognize degrees of wrong. They might know what they're doing isn't right, but they may not be able to differentiate between stealing candy from a convenience store and shooting someone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #57 April 13, 2004 I can't remember the author, but reading There Are No Children Here might be instructive. The plain fact is those "kids" are too screwed up to ever be allowed to roam free. Whether you put them in a hospital or a cell, they'll never be "cured" and releasing them is setting another threat to society loose. I know too many "adults" who are incapable of really listening to a kid. They hear something and are already doing something. I sat down a talked with a 12 year old. The kid knows what's right and wrong, and he knows some things are more wrong than others. Those two little bastards abducted a two year old, tortured him, and beat him to death, then attempted to cover up the crime. They knew damn well that it was wrong.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #58 April 13, 2004 QuoteThose two little bastards abducted a two year old, tortured him, and beat him to death, then attempted to cover up the crime. They knew damn well that it was wrong. Yes, yes they did. Nightingale, response? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #59 April 13, 2004 Knowing something is wrong, and understanding the consequences of that wrongness are two different things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #60 April 13, 2004 QuoteI'm really shocked that the police are allowed to do this..... Why? I'll bet she doesn't steal a rabbit again and that's the point. I'm tired of sissy assed slap on the wrist punishments. The girl has been scared and impressed with the idea that what she did is wrong. She has not been harmed. She was not beaten. And she probably learned a lesson. What would you have the authorities do? Say "Now, now, don't touch the bunny." Yeah right, the kid will be all over it again.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 April 13, 2004 QuoteOr, perhaps she will grow up resenting her mother for what she let happen to her as a child, and will be justified in her ever-growing contempt toward the society in which she lives. Are you honestly saying that because she comited a crime, she is justified in resenting the system in place to protect her? Got a rabbit? I'll be right over. Unbelievable how detached from reality some poeple here are.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #62 April 13, 2004 Isn't the biggest sticking point on the UN/children agreement the prohibition on 17y/o soldiers? In the US, If a kid wants to enlist at 17, she/he can with his parent's consent. No big deal--the kid waits 12 months. On the other hand, if same 17 y/o is a convicted murder, execute the predatory pile of excrement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 April 13, 2004 QuoteThose kids are f-ing insane. They belong in institutions, not jail cells. No. They need to be put down, just like we do with a rabid dog. There truely are some beyond help. Oh and in my book, to pre-meditativly murder someone you're insane. Why should that be an excuse for us tolet them off easier?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #64 April 13, 2004 QuoteLike I said in my previous post... I don't know what ought to be done. I just know the current way of doing things probably isn't right. Would you want to adopt a 12-year-old murderer? Would you want him living free on your street? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #65 April 13, 2004 QuoteKnowing something is wrong, and understanding the consequences of that wrongness are two different things. That seems irrelevant to me. It doesn't matter if they can state chapter and verse of the penal code as to what punishment might ensue. If they know it is wrong, and do it anyway, that's enough to punish them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #66 April 13, 2004 QuoteKnowing something is wrong, and understanding the consequences of that wrongness are two different things. The consequeses of that wrongness? So they haven't ever seen murderers on TV go to jail or be executed for thier crime? They have never played a game that had them running from the law? Come on -I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #67 April 13, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those two little bastards abducted a two year old, tortured him, and beat him to death, then attempted to cover up the crime. They knew damn well that it was wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, yes they did. Nightingale, response? I wasn't asked to respond, but will anyways The problem with every law or regulation or statement is that there is an acception to every rule. The law is in place to prevent the exploitation of children on one hand. On the other hand, the law is in place to emphasize that generally when a kid under 12 commits a heinous crime, there are likely to be other problems. Problems that are probably more important to deal with than just the child. I personally believe that the age limit could be lowered somewhat. It seems that children are becoming more and more mature at an earlier age. However, I do believe in the underlying thoughts of the law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #68 April 13, 2004 Quotethat's exactly what I'm suggesting. they're CHILDREN. Many children have a fundamental understanding of right vs. wrong before they are twelve years old.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #69 April 13, 2004 and many do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #70 April 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteOr, perhaps she will grow up resenting her mother for what she let happen to her as a child, and will be justified in her ever-growing contempt toward the society in which she lives. Are you honestly saying that because she comited a crime, she is justified in resenting the system in place to protect her? Got a rabbit? I'll be right over. Unbelievable how detached from reality some poeple here are. I am saying that when she grows up and looks back on how our justice system dealt with her as a 9yo child, she just may have reason to resent the system, and her mother who i'm sure had some say in what happened. No, I don't have a rabbit. And, to the best of my knowledge, you are not a 9 year old, either. Bad comparison. Unbelievable what some people feel is ok to do to children. There ARE such things as children, btw. This child didn't murder anyone, so some of these comparisons are not very reasonable. Who knows why she took the bunny. Probably some childish reason such as the girl didn't let her play with it, or her mother wouldn't let her have one. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #71 April 13, 2004 QuoteMany children have a fundamental understanding of right vs. wrong before they are twelve years old. I saw two types of kids working in juvenile court. The first one was dressed up, scared to death and mom and dad were there. The other had his pants below his butt and the open fly of his boxers and said "go 'head, send me back. I can do juvi standin' on my head." Understand consequences?? The police car ride probably would've helped the first. A baseball bat probably wouldn't have dented the latter. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #72 April 13, 2004 QuoteWho knows why she took the bunny. Probably some childish reason such as the girl didn't let her play with it, or her mother wouldn't let her have one. That's really f-ed up. So the acceptable reaction for a 9 year old girl, when her mother says you can't have a rabbit it to steal one from another child? And how does not punishing this help the child grow up into an adult who won't steal my car? Ever owned a dog? When it shits in the house do you just look at it and say "there, there, musn't do that" or do you grab the dog the moment it happens, shove it's nose in it, and then say "BAD DOG!"? It's kinda the same thing. I think what happened is great. The kid got a scare, and probably won't do it again. Of course it could have been worse, her parents could have whooped her ass for a while. Now which is a fitting punishment? You seem to suggest that the kid should suffer no consequences of their actions simply because they are a child. Everyone suffers consequences. Deal. You or a kid spits into the wind it ends up on your face. You don't pull, you bounce. I'm tired of the types that wail "It's not fair!" No shit. It's life.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #73 April 13, 2004 I am not saying the child shouldn't have been punished... i'm saying that cuffing her and bringing her in, then questioning in the manner done was probably not the best form of punishment at THIS point. And, neither of your solutions to the dog problem are good ones. Look into obedience training for your dog before shoving it's nose in shit and screaming at it. There are better ways. And, just so you know, my dogs were angels. Litter box trained, too. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #74 April 13, 2004 Quotescreaming at it. I never said scream. QuoteI am not saying the child shouldn't have been punished... So what's right? A "talking to'? Yeah I know that type of parent. There the ones who you can find anywhere in the supermarket because they are saying, "Timmy, don't touch that. Timmy, put that down. Timmy don't hit your sister. Timmy that's not our cart. Timmy you cant have that." Meanwhile Timmy is climbing the shelves, knocking things over, stepping on my toes (there by endangering his life) and screaming bloody murder until the parental unit gives in and lets them have a f-ing chocolate bar. Drowned the little shit. When I was growing up, punishments were immediate and measured. Home late? Grounded. Hit my sister? Smack on the ass. Acting up in a restaurant, or store? We left IMMEDIATELY, and I probably got a smack, or a grounding. Guess what? The next time I though about cutting up, I thought about the consequences.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #75 April 13, 2004 if we ever meet I'm buying you a beer.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
