PhillyKev 0 #126 April 17, 2004 I think you completely misread my post. I wasn't insinuating that women's only value is their breasts. Or that their appearance measures their worth. I also didn't say a calendar would relieve their depression. What I said was that the issue at hand is breasts and the cancer that affects them. I am very close with two women who have had breast cancer. Both of them expressed that after they got rid of the cancer it was very troubling to them to have "deformed" breasts and were glad they could afford cosmetic surgery because their insurance wouldn't cover it. What the pics Michelle posted relate to me is that women can survive breast cancer, and still have attractive breasts. No matter why or how that's ingrained in people, that happens to be important to many of the people affected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #127 April 17, 2004 EEK! I apologize often for not being clear, sometimes I type stream of conciousness - I know that's bad in these situations. VanillaSkyGirl, I did not mean to imply that you had issues with Jan. And the rudeness comment was in support of what you said about some being abrasive. I don't quite understand your exasperation - if it was apparent to you that I was agreeing with you, why did you respond as if I wasn't? I'll assume it was an honest misunderstanding. The only part really I disagreed with - was the nudity/sexuality issue. And even then I don't think it was a disagreement. (?) I was only pointing out that nudity, in whatever form, sends a message. Whether it's intent is sexual or not, it may be perceived as such. It is certainly not for the study of human form in this case. It's representational. But of what? The beauty and sensuality of female skydivers? Is that appropriate for a calendar such as this? (The above questions were not directed to you) You're right, we have nothing to disagree about. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #128 April 18, 2004 Okay, forgive me if this has already been suggested, but I am going to share your thoughts. I would like to see a calendar full of strong women not just skydiving (I haven't been in the sport long, but I have enough Parachutists and USPA calendars to keep me happy with skydiving pictures for awhile.) Trying to have it artistic to try to show a woman's inner beauty is awesome. I have loads of cellulite no matter how great of shape I'm in. My boobs are small, so a cleavage shot would be pretty difficult to get. I doubt any sort of artistic shot would focus in on either of those features, although it may focus in on it on someone else whose features are better. I digress. Anyways, I know you are doing a lot of work in this, but maybe there could be a compromise of sorts. You can artistically show women being strong by focusing in on something other than their bodies. My suggestion is to focus in on activities which make them strong and make that artistic. If one of the women loves soccer, too, get an artistic shot of her being goalie. If one of the women spends a lot of her time volunteering for Habitat for Humanity, get an artsy shot of her building a house. Just my small thought.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #129 April 18, 2004 QuoteEEK! I apologize often for not being clear, sometimes I type stream of conciousness - I know that's bad in these situations. How sweet for you to apologize. I also apologize to you, Freeflybella, if my post to you was harsh. I agree that we are on the same page, and that it was an honest misunderstanding. To those who may be offended...everyone has a right to their personal points of view. I do not see it as challenging anyone's integrity and morals. For the record, once again, I am totally a supporter of this calendar, even though I do believe that these discussions about the calendar and its content or women's portrayal are also positive and not meant to challenge anyone's morals or integrity. Once again, I truly believe that the ladies and men behind this calendar have only the best intentions. Ultimately, this calendar is being made with love, and I really respect that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gmanpilot 0 #130 April 19, 2004 QuoteI was only pointing out that nudity, in whatever form, sends a message. Actually, that is not always true, and I think that may be the point Rosa was alluding to. The nude form as subject matter in art, especially in B&W images, is generally not used to make a point or to send a message. The artist usually intends to draw the viewer into the image so they can interpret or experience it in whatever manner they choose to. There is nothing vulgar or exploitative about artwork that contains nude images. More importantly, an image of a woman that contains nudity does not represent anyone other than, at best, the artist and the subject, and the artist would probably prefer that it not be perceived as propaganda of any sort. In my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #131 April 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteI was only pointing out that nudity, in whatever form, sends a message. Actually, that is not always true, and I think that may be the point Rosa was alluding to. The nude form as subject matter in art, especially in B&W images, is generally not used to make a point or to send a message. The artist usually intends to draw the viewer into the image so they can interpret or experience it in whatever manner they choose to. There is nothing vulgar or exploitative about artwork that contains nude images. More importantly, an image of a woman that contains nudity does not represent anyone other than, at best, the artist and the subject. In my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them. indeed nudity is not pornography despite the puritian social mores that attempt to paint it otherwise. the mind of the view gives it context, if you think a particular image is pornographic or not the first place you need to examine is yourself.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gmanpilot 0 #132 April 19, 2004 Quotethe mind of the view gives it context bingo!_________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #133 April 19, 2004 That's what I said. The study of the human form is not necessarily - and most likely not sexual. Agreeing with Zenister that the viewers mind gives it context is why I don't say it's absolutely not sexual - as I did before. But also agreeing with BOTH Zenister and gmanpiilot: The mind of the viewer gives it context. When nudity is used to promote or sell or in representation of something else, it absolutely sends a message. That message could be "women's bodies are beautiful" or "This is an example of a life-giving being" or "Hey check out my tits" Whatever the message, it's there. And when associated with a debilitating illness and a body ravaging illness - I only pointed out that one should examine and be certain of the message they are sending. Is a fundraising calendar for breast cancer an appropriate place to test people's sexual boundaries or their views on what is considered porn? If the answer is yes, don't be surprised when others voice an opposing view. If the answer is no, check and double check that you're not doing just that. If you're certain that is not what's happening, move ahead! Be strong and determined with the knowledge you're doing soemthing good for a good cause. You can't please everyone! (This above paragraph is not directed to anyone in particular. Just rhetoric for the purpose of discussion) QuoteIn my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them. "Art" when tied to a cause becomes advertising. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 6 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
gmanpilot 0 #130 April 19, 2004 QuoteI was only pointing out that nudity, in whatever form, sends a message. Actually, that is not always true, and I think that may be the point Rosa was alluding to. The nude form as subject matter in art, especially in B&W images, is generally not used to make a point or to send a message. The artist usually intends to draw the viewer into the image so they can interpret or experience it in whatever manner they choose to. There is nothing vulgar or exploitative about artwork that contains nude images. More importantly, an image of a woman that contains nudity does not represent anyone other than, at best, the artist and the subject, and the artist would probably prefer that it not be perceived as propaganda of any sort. In my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #131 April 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteI was only pointing out that nudity, in whatever form, sends a message. Actually, that is not always true, and I think that may be the point Rosa was alluding to. The nude form as subject matter in art, especially in B&W images, is generally not used to make a point or to send a message. The artist usually intends to draw the viewer into the image so they can interpret or experience it in whatever manner they choose to. There is nothing vulgar or exploitative about artwork that contains nude images. More importantly, an image of a woman that contains nudity does not represent anyone other than, at best, the artist and the subject. In my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them. indeed nudity is not pornography despite the puritian social mores that attempt to paint it otherwise. the mind of the view gives it context, if you think a particular image is pornographic or not the first place you need to examine is yourself.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #132 April 19, 2004 Quotethe mind of the view gives it context bingo!_________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #133 April 19, 2004 That's what I said. The study of the human form is not necessarily - and most likely not sexual. Agreeing with Zenister that the viewers mind gives it context is why I don't say it's absolutely not sexual - as I did before. But also agreeing with BOTH Zenister and gmanpiilot: The mind of the viewer gives it context. When nudity is used to promote or sell or in representation of something else, it absolutely sends a message. That message could be "women's bodies are beautiful" or "This is an example of a life-giving being" or "Hey check out my tits" Whatever the message, it's there. And when associated with a debilitating illness and a body ravaging illness - I only pointed out that one should examine and be certain of the message they are sending. Is a fundraising calendar for breast cancer an appropriate place to test people's sexual boundaries or their views on what is considered porn? If the answer is yes, don't be surprised when others voice an opposing view. If the answer is no, check and double check that you're not doing just that. If you're certain that is not what's happening, move ahead! Be strong and determined with the knowledge you're doing soemthing good for a good cause. You can't please everyone! (This above paragraph is not directed to anyone in particular. Just rhetoric for the purpose of discussion) QuoteIn my experience, art does not send messages, it solicits them. "Art" when tied to a cause becomes advertising. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
