chuteless 1 #1 April 7, 2004 8 am April 7th 2004....another 12 marines killed today... I still say...do whatever it takes to win...or get out and become Vietnam II. However, I realize the USA will not get out, and I agree they may end up in Iran before too long, where they will go through this type of thing all over again Bill Cole. D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 April 7, 2004 Quotebecome Vietnam II the only difference is they don't have the monsoon... Quoteget out the only reasonnable solution IMO they already did a good thing, take saddam out of there. now let's just wait for the next one (which will certainly not be better...)scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #3 April 7, 2004 Yes, getting out is the thing to do. IF you want an Islamic Republic Of Iraq, and a nice breeding ground for yet more terrorists. Think they'll sell oil to the US? The current situation was predicted by a lot of people. Mostly by people the Bush administration and its followers think of as cowards, hypocrites and "enemies" (such as France and Clinton), but also by people friendly to the current administration. The reasonable approach would have been to legitimize the whole deal a lot sooner. Done today I think it'd add nothing but blue helmets for Iraqi insurgents to shoot at. What a mess Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 April 7, 2004 QuoteIF you want an Islamic Republic Of Iraq, and a nice breeding ground for yet more terrorists. so what should they do ?? arrest/kill anybody susceptible of being/becoming a terrorist ?? QuoteThink they'll sell oil to the US? is that the main concern for the US to go to Iraq ? get petrol ?? QuoteThe reasonable approach would have been to legitimize the whole deal a lot sooner. like during gulf war #1 ??? a big mess indeed... but still small compared to how it will be once it's really over.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #5 April 7, 2004 It seems the radio station that reported "another" 12 marines dead, was actually referring to the ones killed a day ago. They must have got it from the "used News" department. However, they did say that more than 60 Iraqis were killed since then. What can you expect from a Canajun radio station, eh? Bill Cole D-41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #6 April 7, 2004 37 dead American soldiers since monday. See DOD figures.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #7 April 7, 2004 Quote so what should they do ?? arrest/kill anybody susceptible of being/becoming a terrorist ?? I am not well versed in the art of turning occupation into something acceptable, even if it is short term. I don't know how to make countries democratic either. What I suspect could make a difference, or could have, anyhow, would be a UN mandate, so it seems less like they're occupied and controlled by the Great Satan, the USA. Too late for that. Quote is that the main concern for the US to go to Iraq ? get petrol ?? No, it's WMD, Saddam supports Al Qaeida, Saddam is a bad dude and we want freedom for the Iraqi people. There were more than one reason for it, and oil is only one of them. Our economies are driven by it, and by that I mean ALL western nations, not just the US. There were many other reasons too, some well founded, others not. The war on terrorism argument is BS though, especially if the US pulls out, since they'll then have created a haven for terrorists where there was none before. Quotelike during gulf war #1 ??? I don't get the reference. The GF1 was fully sanctioned by the UN. This one was not (and "serious consequences", as mentioned in resolution 1441 was NOT, according to US officials, an automatic go-to-war clause) Quote a big mess indeed... but still small compared to how it will be once it's really over. Yeah, someone should have either done a lot more thinking or listened to dissenting opinions before pulling this one off. I mean, the problem,s that'd arise were obvious, but they were just ignored. And here we are... Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 April 7, 2004 QuoteQuotebecome Vietnam II the only difference is they don't have the monsoon... ...and we will still need to stay there for another 15 years too. Comparisons to Vietnam don't make a lot of sense to me, both in terms of how we got involved in each, how we are/were able to execute policy, and the political leadership that set things in motion in each.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 April 7, 2004 QuoteComparisons to Vietnam don't make a lot of sense to me, You don't fnid the guerilla attacks by the local citizenry and the large population opposed to us being there at all similar? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #10 April 7, 2004 Iraq is not Vietnam. The attacks on coalition troops are being done by factions who want the US out so they can reassert their control over the rest of Iraqi society, i.e., Baathists who want to restore Hussein's regime and militant Islamists who want to create an Islamic Republic similar to Iran. If the US leaves they will immediately turn their guns on each other (and everybody else who isn't on their side). If the entire population was against us, we wouldn't stand a chance. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis support what's been done by the US. Their major gripe has been the US's inability to get a handle on the militant groups and restore order and security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #11 April 7, 2004 >You don't fnid the guerilla attacks by the local citizenry and the large >population opposed to us being there at all similar? Their actions are similar, but the political situation is far different. Vietnam was in some ways a proxy war between the US and communist China and the USSR, and thus there was a line we would not cross. The enemy in this case is much more diffuse, and they don't have nuclear weapons. That makes it both easier and harder than Vietnam. Easier because we have a freer hand, harder because there is no one to negotiate a cease-fire with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #12 April 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteComparisons to Vietnam don't make a lot of sense to me, You don't fnid the guerilla attacks by the local citizenry and the large population opposed to us being there at all similar? When you parse out only a piece of what I said, then yes, it's similar. In a larger picture however, there's no similarity. Our soldiers are not being spit on when they get home, they have our support. We have been in Iraq for a year, not 15. The list can go on.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 April 7, 2004 I agree that there isn't much of anything similar to Vietnam politically. But this thread was about Marines dying, and it seems to me, they're dying the same way now that they did in Vietnam. The majority of Vietnamese were happy we where there as well. We still lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 April 7, 2004 Quote Our soldiers are not being spit on when they get home, they have our support. We have been in Iraq for a year, not 15. And the soldiers who fought in Vietnam were not spat on after the 1st year either.... In fact, you've lost more men than you did in the 1st year in Vietnam...It's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #15 April 7, 2004 Like I wrote previously, the list can go on and on. Our first year in Vietnam wasn't an invasion either (IIRC they were invited advisors from CIA and Spec. Ops). I still say that's why comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam make no sense to me. The dissimilarities are overwhelming.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #16 April 7, 2004 G, Your're right, there is no similarity between Iraq and Vietnam, other than US armed forces being involved in both......Teddy Kennedy and his ilk would like us to believe they are carbon copy,but I"m not buying itMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #17 June 13, 2006 Quote8 am April 7th 2004....another 12 marines killed today... I still say...do whatever it takes to win...or get out and become Vietnam II. However, I realize the USA will not get out, and I agree they may end up in Iran before too long, where they will go through this type of thing all over again Bill Cole. D-41 What do you think now Bill?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dancergirl 0 #18 June 13, 2006 QuoteQuote8 am April 7th 2004....another 12 marines killed today... I still say...do whatever it takes to win...or get out and become Vietnam II. However, I realize the USA will not get out, and I agree they may end up in Iran before too long, where they will go through this type of thing all over again Bill Cole. D-41 What do you think now Bill? he's too busy writing his script about the next ending of the world...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #19 June 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote8 am April 7th 2004....another 12 marines killed today... I still say...do whatever it takes to win...or get out and become Vietnam II. However, I realize the USA will not get out, and I agree they may end up in Iran before too long, where they will go through this type of thing all over again Bill Cole. D-41 What do you think now Bill? he's too busy writing his script about the next ending of the world...... Maybe he is but at least he belives in something. How about you dancergirl? What do you belive in? What gives you strength in your weakest hour?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
