billvon 3,107 #51 April 13, 2004 >He stopped being our ally 13 years ago when he invaded Kuwait, and >we went to war against him. You don't have to keep an ally forever. I agree. So we do sometimes abandon our allies. >If Israel starts gassing civilians, we'll leave them behind too. ----------------- Tear or Poison Gas: Investigating evidence of a new war crime By Jonathan Cook, in the West Bank April 2001 The school playground in the village of Al-Khader, near Bethlehem, has been a children's battleground for the past six months: pupils finish classes at midday and congregate to throw stones at the Israeli soldiers stationed in the hills around their homes. The confrontation was relatively trouble-free until last month when soldiers fired tear gas into the playground. One canister landed only a few feet from 13-year-old Sliman Salah, enveloping him in a cloud of gas described by witnesses as an unfamiliar, yellow colour. Within a minute he was unconscious. By the time Salah arrived at the private Yamamah hospital, his body was racked by violent spasms and convulsions, his breathing was sporadic and his pupils tightly constricted. The French doctor who admitted him was baffled. Annie Dudin, a paediatrician who has worked in the West Bank for 15 years, has treated dozens of victims of gas inhalation, including many between 1987 and 1993, during the first Intifada, but had never seen symptoms like Salah's before. Normally, victims recover after a few minutes away from tear gas. In more severe cases, oxygen and an injection of glucose may be needed to stop coughing fits and dry up streaming eyes. Neither treatment worked with Salah. His seizures continued until he was given large doses of anti-convulsants and only slowly did he regain consciousness. --------------------- If the above is true, would you support abandoning Israel? (Sharon has denied that it is.) >Israel can stand on its own when the entire region stops trying to put > them out of existence. In exchange for our money Israel shows > remarkable restraint, keeping the hot situation from melting entirely. Thousands dead, and you think they're doing a great job. Well, heck, if ten thousand die next year, we should double their aid! They'd be doing an even better job, and showing even more restraint. Based on 2002 numbers, we give them $3 million for every Palestinian they kill. Why would they stop? Wouldn't a better incentive for peace be "Hey, you better make peace with the Palestinians within 10 years, because you're not going to get free F-16's after that?" >When did > Hussein raise the bounty to $25k? Early in 2002, the worst year on the list. If, as you claim, the $25K bounty was what was motivating bombers, bombings should have stopped once he stopped paying them. Instead, they went from 181 to 150. And as I mentioned there were 6 in 2000. Think there might just be another factor involved? Would you prefer a repeat of 2000 or 2003/4? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #52 April 13, 2004 Quote"Hey, you better make peace with the Palestinians within 10 years, because you're not going to get free F-16's after that?" Haven't the Palestinians sworn to keep fighting until all the Jews in Israel are dead? There's not a peaceful solution to this particular problem. Unfortunate, but true, I'm afraid. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #53 April 14, 2004 Quote>It's called deterrence Bill. Deterrence only works if the enemy knows you will use it. Nuclear weapons would have done nothing to stop 9/11; terrorists know we won't nuke Manhattan to stop a jetliner. Nuclear weapons won't stop a wave of suicide bombers in Israel, nor will they stop a mass uprising in occupied areas, because they know the Israelis will not drop nuclear weapons on Israel. You missed my point I think.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 April 14, 2004 Quote >If Israel starts gassing civilians, we'll leave them behind too. [tale of single kid with strange reaction to 'strange' tear gas] If the above is true, would you support abandoning Israel? (Sharon has denied that it is.) sorry, Bill. Tear gas has little comparison with the 6 million gassed in WWII, one of the primary reasons why Israel exists today. Or for that matter, the gassing that Iraq did in the past to its own citizens and during the war with Iran. Like I said, if Israel starts exterminating the Palestines, we'll be leaving them behind. All you got here is a single incident. We have those all the time here in the US. Without further evidence, it means nothing. Quote If, as you claim, the $25K bounty was what was motivating bombers, bombings should have stopped once he stopped paying them. Instead, they went from 181 to 150. And as I mentioned there were 6 in 2000. Think there might just be another factor involved? Would you prefer a repeat of 2000 or 2003/4? It's a motivation - I never claimed otherwise. And removing it is only a positive. You might do well to consider that the 0 fatalities in 1999 and the limited ones in 2000 might have other reasons. Again, cherry picking is lame, you can do better than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #55 April 20, 2004 QuoteTear or Poison Gas: Investigating evidence of a new war crime this is low, bill, even for you. there were and will be many "inventions" created to gain news coverage and cause an initial shock. remember the "massacre" in jenin who turned out to be mostly armed terrorists? i can give you many more. you know what?, if we use poison gas (or any other form of mass destruction weapons) to exterminate palestinians, i'll be the first one to call for the destruction of israel as a country. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
