GWB speech last night

[wmw999 2,587]

They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We knew well that innocent people would be lost. The people in the tower were in the wrong place at the wrong time. While a civilian target was chosen, it also was when we bombed Dresden in WW2, and Nagasaki. There were extenuating circumstances. But we (that's the "people I can understand" we) can't change people if we can't find a common ground with them.

And while I think our extenuating circumstances were more compelling than AlQaeda's, if I deny that they had some, it makes violence the ONLY way to deal with all of them. If I acknowledge, then some of them might find a common ground, too. Haven't you moderated some of your reactions since you were in your early 20's?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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I said that I hate the culture and should destroy this culture. They are the racists, and they have a culture of racism.

And al Qaeda and other Muslim extremist groups hate American culture and want to destroy American culture. What makes you so different from the people you hate?

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[SkydiverRick 0]

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We may be similar in the fact that we are all human beings. The difference is that America does not murder innocent women and children to achieve it's goals.

Sure we do, and we have through history. We may not target them specifically much these days, but when we kill them and call it "collateral damage" or some other euphemism, we have still murdered them.

Which is exactly what I said. Somehow tht part was deleted from my quote.

never pull low......unless you are

[SkydiverRick 0]

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They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We knew well that innocent people would be lost. The people in the tower were in the wrong place at the wrong time. While a civilian target was chosen, it also was when we bombed Dresden in WW2, and Nagasaki. There were extenuating circumstances. But we (that's the "people I can understand" we) can't change people if we can't find a common ground with them.

And while I think our extenuating circumstances were more compelling than AlQaeda's, if I deny that they had some, it makes violence the ONLY way to deal with all of them. If I acknowledge, then some of them might find a common ground, too. Haven't you moderated some of your reactions since you were in your early 20's?

Wendy W.

Wendy the targeting of civilians is wrong. Just because a group cannot shove thier values down our throats doesn't give them the right to attack us. We have a right to defend ourselves when we are attacked.

never pull low......unless you are

[mikkey 0]

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Hitler was an evil aggressor. To compare what he was trying to accomplish to Americas motives is offensive. Self defence is a lot different than trying to rule the world. Most Americans hate war. We also hate unprovoked attacks on our soil. The Taliban and Al Queda opened the can of whoop ass, we're just doing the pouring.

The guys was not talking about self-defence. He said that he hates all Arabs and wants to destroy their culture. That means he needs to kill them all. Are you defending that? Or do you think that all Arabs are terrorists? These guys are a minority.
It is attitudes like this that helped Hitler (target being the Jews - he blamed them for all evil things) and should have nothing to do with American values.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[jfields 0]

But sometimes we have specifically targeted them. Saying "Sometimes they die" is not a fair assessment of the way that life is both calculated and taken in some military operations. It is not a clear cut good guy/bad guy scenario. Wendy mentioned Nagasaki and Dresden. There are more you could throw in, where we intentionally targeted civilians. We don't do it much, but we do it. They weren't collateral damage. They were the target.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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These are still fun threads, but less than when I first started reading the forums.

The absolute and unwavering vitriol from the left is tiring though and I'm still not sure exactly what another administration would have done (actions, not words) differently or, even so, if something different would have turned out better. I'm sure some different actions would have taken longer.

I hear a lot of complaints, but only rhetoric, not alternatives..

Yea, cause all the war, over spending, lack of attention to details here at home have really turned this world and country around and on the right path. Maybe the other option was the better way.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SkydiverRick 0]

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But sometimes we have specifically targeted them. Saying "Sometimes they die" is not a fair assessment of the way that life is both calculated and taken in some military operations. It is not a clear cut good guy/bad guy scenario. Wendy mentioned Nagasaki and Dresden. There are more you could throw in, where we intentionally targeted civilians. We don't do it much, but we do it. They weren't collateral damage. They were the target.

Is this why A Queda killed 3000 Americans 2 years ago today?

never pull low......unless you are

[jfields 0]

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But sometimes we have specifically targeted them. Saying "Sometimes they die" is not a fair assessment of the way that life is both calculated and taken in some military operations. It is not a clear cut good guy/bad guy scenario. Wendy mentioned Nagasaki and Dresden. There are more you could throw in, where we intentionally targeted civilians. We don't do it much, but we do it. They weren't collateral damage. They were the target.
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Is this why A Queda killed 3000 Americans 2 years ago today?

Nope. Didn't say it was.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I said the culture should be destroyed, not wipe out countries or millions of people. Destroying the culture of the Taliban was a good thing. That culture is thriving in other parts of the Arab world.

And what culture would that be? The Arab culture, The Muslim culture, or the terrorist culture? Or all they all one and the same for you?

[PhillyKev 0]

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difference is that America does not murder innocent women and children to achieve it's goals.

Ever hear of Dresden? We carpet bombed a city, not a military target. Ever hear of Nagasaki or Hiroshima?

All 3 of those incidents were carried out to kill as many people (not soldiers, not military leaders) as possible in order to convince the enemy to capitulate.

[Steel 0]

Indonesians are Asian not Arabs. Does not quite fit the stereotype of Muslim = Arab.

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I am trying to stay away from this thread because got way too repitious. But I have to have fun with this. See there are some basics that people seem to have forgotten. For instance a Latino is a latin person or a person, someone whose language came from Latin. For instance (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese) A Latino is not a Mexican whose decendents really spoke an Aztec Indian language. Well the same is with an Asian, (somebody from Asia). Thats right, Russians are Asians, so are Indians or anybody in that continent for that matter. Arabic is a language mostly. It is also the adjective for Arabia but there are Arabic speaking people in far more places than Arabia. Arabic also has extremely close ties to the Muslim faith or Islam if you wish to call it that. I can guarantee that the Mosques in Indonesia are reading their Korans in Arabic and speaking Arabic amongst themselves as well. I guess in the end they are no less Arabic than the Palestinians and that fact that they are in Asia is totally meaningless.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

So you are choosing to define terms in direct contradiction to common usage, and then you are using your own concocted definitions to "prove" common usage incorrect.

This is referred to as circular reasoning.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Steel 0]

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So you are choosing to define terms in direct contradiction to common usage, and then you are using your own concocted definitions to "prove" common usage incorrect.

This is referred to as circular reasoning.

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Ok if my reasoning is "circular" can you explain it any better? Can you tell me who is more Arabic than the Indonesians and why? But try not to be funny and tell me that its because theyare in the Asian continent and not the Eurpean.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Amazon 7]

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For instance (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese) A Latino is not a Mexican whose decendents really spoke an Aztec Indian language.

HUH

Bet that is news to a whole bunch of people in this country.

Is there still a Spain/Mexico schizm STILL going on?

Those indian people are not really high enough class to count I guess.

Amazon

[Steel 0]

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For instance (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese) A Latino is not a Mexican whose decendents really spoke an Aztec Indian language.

HUH

Bet that is news to a whole bunch of people in this country.

Is there still a Spain/Mexico schizm STILL going on?

Those indian people are not really high enough class to count I guess.

Amazon

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What are you talking about? Lets try to restate this in simpler terms for you. Latin is a mother Language spoken originally in part of what is now Italy. People whose language came from Latin should therefore be called Latinos. People whose decendents for the most part are that of an Aztec do not have anything to do with the Latin language. If they do then I guess we should also be linking the Bahamas and all the British Isles with the Anglicans. Or for that matter the Haitians and the Algerians with the French.
Now what don't you understand?

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[mikkey 0]

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Thats right, Russians are Asians, so are Indians or anybody in that continent for that matter.

Do you have to demonstrate your lack of knowledge in such an obvious way? There is a nEuropean part of the Russian federation and there is an Asian. The divide is normally accepted to be at the Ural mountains (geographically). Russians are "Slavic" people and this is an European "ethnic group" - other Slavs include Bulgarians, Poles and others. The are many other ethnic groups in the former Soviet Union, including many Asians.

Indians, Pakistanis are Asians or more specific "South Asians" divided into many ethnic sub groups.

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I can guarantee that the Mosques in Indonesia are reading their Korans in Arabic and speaking Arabic amongst themselves as well. I guess in the end they are no less Arabic than the Palestinians and that fact that they are in Asia is totally meaningless.

Indonesia is in South East Asia far away from the Middle East. Population 220 Million plus.
Languages:
Bahasa Indonesia (official, modified form of Malay), English, Dutch, local dialects, the most widely spoken of which is Javanese.

Check out some facts the CIA can help you with at:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html

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I guess in the end they are no less Arabic than the Palestinians and that fact that they are in Asia is totally meaningless.

Indonesian Ethnic groups:
Javanese 45%, Sundanese 14%, Madurese 7.5%, coastal Malays 7.5%, other 26% - all in no way related to Arabs.
Religions:
Muslim 88%, Protestant 5%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 2%, Buddhist 1%, other 1%

Palestinian people are Arabs, closely related to Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese

I hope facts don't get too much in the way of your uninformed and bigot ranting.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[jfields 0]

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I hope facts don't get too much in the way of your uninformed and bigot ranting.

They haven't so far, so I doubt there is anything to worry about.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Can you tell me who is more Arabic than the Indonesians and why?

People from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait are Arabic.

Why? Because they are from Arabia. Notice that Iran, Iraq, Palestine, etc. are not included. Those people are not Arabic. Neither are indonesians. Neither are American black muslims.

[PhillyKev 0]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/maps/demotext.html

[Steel 0]

First of all most of Russia lies in the Asian continent. More that 2/3 of Russia is East of the Ural Mountains. Calling Russia European makes them feel good because that way they can disassociate themselves from the rest of the Asians. If Russia was considered Europe then Europe would be the largest continent of the world, but it isn't, Asia is. I don't care what relation they have to the Slavic people. Costa Rica is a country where the overwelming majority of the people are of Spanish descent but we still don't call it Europe.

Saying Indonesia has the most Muslims in kind of meaningless. The only reason for this is because its such a very populated country. There are more Norwegians in the U.S. then there are in Norway but that mean American is more Norwegian than Norway. People following the Muslim faith will as a rule speak Arabic.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[PhillyKev 0]

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First of all most of Russia lies in the Russian continent.

Oh boy....the Russian continent? I missed that one in grade school.

[jfields 0]

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First of all most of Russia lies in the Russian continent. More that 2/3 of Russia is East of the Ural Mountains. Calling Russia European makes them feel good because that way they can disassociate themselves from the rest of the Asians. If Russia was considered Europe then Europe would be the largest continent of the world, but it isn't, Asia is

So, is Russia in the Russian continent, or in Asia? Or is the country just commuting back and forth?

[Steel 0]

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First of all most of Russia lies in the Russian continent. More that 2/3 of Russia is East of the Ural Mountains. Calling Russia European makes them feel good because that way they can disassociate themselves from the rest of the Asians. If Russia was considered Europe then Europe would be the largest continent of the world, but it isn't, Asia is

So, is Russia in the Russian continent, or in Asia? Or is the country just commuting back and forth?

you can all have fun with an obvious typo but the content is pretty clear.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[PhillyKev 0]

Here you go. My 8 year old nephew was browsing this site the other day. You might want to check it out. I'll give you his email if you have any questions.

http://www.worldatlas.com/geoquiz/thelist.htm