Gear Questions for Novices

[ColdDuck 0]

Iam currently still on student status however, I have been looking at what type of gear I might like to buy once I'm on my own. The most popular canopies for novices seem to be the (Sabre, Triathlon, Spectre, and the Silhouette) at least those are the four that I am considering at this point. Seems like most people at my DZ use a PD canopy of some sort.
So if anyone could give me some insight on which one of these canopies you would reccomend to someone recently of student status.
I am looking for something that is fun, easy to land, and if possible relatively easy to pack.
Iam also curious about containers. From what I can tell my DZ heavily supports the Mirage. So naturally that peaked my interest in that container. However I was wondering if there are some containers that are meant only for experienced jumpers. (Mirage's website said they make rigs for experienced jumpers only ie. no student or tandem rigs)
Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated
BLUE SKIES !!!!!!
Edited by ColdDuck on 3/21/01 12:27 PM.

[Eggman 0]

I've heard great things about the Triathalon. On heading openings, nice flare etc.
Sorry I cant add more...... I'm a renter
Koo Koo Ka Chew

[cyberskydive 0]

Yeah thats right- your the egg-man-LOL
My advicv is to try before you buy! When you finish student satus and start in on the rental gear jump a variety of canopies/container systems as possibly withing a SAFE limit and see what you are comfortable with. Presicion also makes some great canopies, particularly the Falcon, and F-111 canopy that is cool :)
D.Chisolm C-28534
webmaster@sunraydesigns.com
http://www.sunraydesigns.com

[skreamer 1]

Try posting your question to the 'Gear and Rigging' forum. There's lots of knowledgeable guys there who will be able to help you.
/s
[drop till you party!]

[Greg 0]

Well cold one, I struggled with the same question. I ended up going with the Sillhouette. I tried a several other canopys off student status, but I really liked the "feel" of the Sillhouette. It is "mildly" elliptical and can can give you smooth openings, some nice crisp turns, has lots of flare, and at least in my experience, is quite forgiving to land. The combonation of ZP and F111 makes it pretty easy to pack, not that its rolls up and jumps into the container or anything, but it is a little easier than a ZP only canopy.

[Deleted 0]

Cyber...
Stop trying to pitch your canopy. We all know it is for sale!!!!talk about a biased posting!!
Arohanui,
B
NZPF A-2584

[Iflyme 0]

I have about 45 jumps on a previously owned Silhouette 210 (77 jumps total now). I have it loaded at 1:1 ... I quite like it!!! Lotsa fun to fly, great openings, no problems landing it, and it packs easily. I would not hesitate to recommend this canopy to a novice/intermediate jumper.
Frank

[fruce 0]

I wouldn't presume to give you advice of what canopy is "right" for you. I can tell you that I have jumped all of the ones you listed, and in particular, did a side to side comparison between the Sabre and Spectre. All of these canopies offer some benefit/compromise, the weighting of which is/will be based on what your skill and comfort levels are. Most importantly, at what wing loading will these canopies be evaluated under? I can tell you that I got some pretty decent swoops under a highly loaded Spectre, yet it's glide made me feel like I was sinking like a rock. The Sabre stayed in the air longer, but was not as responsive as the Spectre. Under opening the Spectre (to the unaccustomed) will freak you out on how long it takes to open, yet the openings are consistently soft. The Sabre, on the other hand, every now and then will give you a good whack on opening. My advice is to demo the Spectre and the Sabre (same size) on the same day...... do three jumps with the Spectre and then three with the Sabre....... You will clearly "feel" the differences.
As for the rig...... I own a Mirage. Your choice, Javelin, Vector, Voodoo...... they are all good.
fruce & friends

[Krishan 0]

You are considered an "experienced jumper" as soon as you get your A license. Do not be driven away from the mirage because of that. I got my mirage with only about 30 jumps. It is not any harder to use than anything else and it is alot more relible than most.
Krishan

[Greg 0]

I would have to agree, although I elected to get a Javelin, my brother got a Mirrage G3. He loves it. He started jumping it shortly after he got off of student status at around 15 jumps. I have not jumped it myself yet, so I can not provide any more of a testimonial than that.

[Iflyme 0]

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You are considered an "experienced jumper" as soon as you get your A license.

Not in my book... anyone under 200 jumps is a novice as far as I'm concerned. You don't have much "experience" at 30 jumps...
Frank

[miked10270 0]

Hi Frank, Hi Y'all,
Yeah Frank... Fair comment... But as far as Harness/container manufacturers are concerned...
Those who state they manufacture "only for the experienced" are commonly stating that they do not manufacture "Student" systems - I.E. Ripcord deploy, secondary main handle, SLS etc... Their system manufacture is for BOC, ROL, Pull-out. RSL is a (usually cost) option, not standard.
As such, any Harness/container manufacturer should do for an "A" license & above.
Mike D10270.

[Krishan 0]

Exactly what I meant. I have 127 jumps and I dont consider myself experienced.

[Dutchboy 0]

When I was looking for gear the JM's and riggers at my DZ nearly universally recommended the Spectre for a canopy and a Dolphin for a container. The reasoning is that the Spectre handles well and is forgiving. The Dolphin is cheap, durable, and safe. You will land on your back as a novice and be glad you have a durable (and cheap) container when that happens. The worst container you could get would be a bright white Mirage.

[Aviatrr 0]

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Iam currently still on student status however, I have been looking at what type of gear I might like to buy once I'm on my own. The most popular canopies for novices seem to be the (Sabre, Triathlon, Spectre, and the Silhouette) at least those are the four that I am considering at this point. Seems like most people at my DZ use a PD canopy of some sort.

Well..As far as which canopy would be best for you, none of us can answer that question.. We don't know your abilities or experience level.. I can, however, comment on types of canopies.. Any of the ones you listed would be good first canopy.. A couple more you should consider are the PISA Hornet and the Icarus Safire.. The Sabre, Safire, and Hornet are all ZP.. The Sabre is pretty slippery ZP material when new, but gets easier to pack with an increasing number of jumps on it.. I have never packed a brand new Safire - but a Safire with 100 jumps was a breeze to pack.. The Hornet is a very easy canopy to pack - whether brand new or worn out.. I currently jump a Hornet, and it has been easy to pack since day 1(I bought it new).. It is similar to the Safire(slightly elliptical).. The Triathlon is offered in Hybrid(ZP top skin, F111 bottom) and all F111.. Either way, fairly easy to pack.. The Silhouette is also a Hybrid - but I am not familiar with it.. All the canopies listed thus far are 9 cell.. The Spectre is a ZP 7 cell.. I only have one jump on a Spectre, but it flew great and was easy to pack (with only 1 jump on it).. Talk to your JM's regarding your canopy type/size choice..

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Iam also curious about containers. From what I can tell my DZ heavily supports the Mirage. So naturally that peaked my interest in that container. However I was wondering if there are some containers that are meant only for experienced jumpers. (Mirage's website said they make rigs for experienced jumpers only ie. no student or tandem rigs)

It seems to me that container type is somewhat dependent on geographical area.. Some containers are dominant on the West coast and rare on the East coast, and vice versa.. Most are good containers.. If you go with any of the major container manufacturers, you shouldn't have any problems.. Mirage, Relative Workshop(Vector), Rigging Innovations(Talon, Voodoo), Javelin, Dolphin.. I recommend getting a freefly friendly container if you want to freefly - or may want to in the future.. Most modern rigs - with the exception of the Dolphin - are freefly friendly.. Some of the older containers may not be.. Check with a rigger on that..
For your first rig, you should probably buy used.. Unless you have lots of money to waste, that is.. You will probably want to downsize within a hundred jumps or so, and if you buy new you will lose quite a bit on your investment.. If you buy new, be sure to buy a container that you can downsize canopies without buying a new container.. Good luck..
Mike

[Dutchboy 0]

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Most modern rigs - with the exception of the Dolphin - are freefly
friendly.. Some of the older containers may not be.. Check with a rigger on that..

Now, now Mike, the new Dolphins are plenty freefly friendly. I know several people who freefly with Dolphins, including me. There is no exposed bridle on the new Dolphins. There is also velcro keeping everything stationary under the covers. The older Dolphins don't have this, however.

[Grogs 0]

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I have never packed a brand new Safire

Nor have I. But from talking to a couple of people about their brand new Safires, it is a miserable, very slippery material to pack when brand new. It seems to be a nice canopy to fly though.
Personally, I would recommend you don't buy brand new gear at this stage of the game. With 15 jumps, you're still going to want a canopy with very conservative wing loading - probably around 1:1. Within 50-100 jumps after that, you'll most likely want something a bit more aggressive, maybe a 1.2-1.3 wing loading, so it pays to buy a used canopy off student status. By the time you're ready to downsize, you'll probably have a much better idea of what you want and then you can consider buying a new canopy to keep for a few hundred jumps after that.
As for the types of canopies, I'd say take a look at what's available around the DZ, maybe what some other jumpers have. When you find one you like and can fly and land safely, get one. Again, you'll probably be wanting to downsize before too long as your canopy skills improve so it's not absolutely imperative you get the perfect canopy right off student status, just something you can use safely.

[TripleF 0]

Dude,
If ya' want to e-mail me, I have a complete rig for sale that ya' may be interested in...I pride myself in saftey inovations and this one is full of them, and almost new too...
Triple F

[Grogs 0]

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Not in my book... anyone under 200 jumps is a novice as far as I'm concerned. You don't have much "experience" at 30 jumps...
Frank

LOL. Funny you should mention that Frank. I was having a conversation with Stacy last night. Seems she's going to hit 200 jumps soon, and get her "D" License... a MASTER jumper. I agree about the container thing though. Our students actually start on Javelins. BOC throwout, dual cutaway, cypress. As long as you're familiar with the deployment and emergency systems, any main stream container should be fine.

[TripleF 0]

Grogs,
All three of ya are dead on line...you, Frank and Stacy...
I couldn't have put it any better than Stacy...I'm a beginner and always will be...Thank you for the input... and the reminder also...
Triple F

[Merrick 0]

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").. The Triathlon is offered in Hybrid(ZP top skin, F111 bottom) and all F111.. Either way, fairly easy to pack."

Pam just started jumping her Triathlon, and just to be clear... they are also available in entirely ZP fabric, because that's what her's is... and yes, it's very easy to pack!

Quote

"All the canopies listed thus far are 9 cell.."

Again, for clarity sake... the Triathlon is a 7-cell canopy.... Just don't want anybody to get confused! The Triathlon is a very very docile canopy... at the right wingloading you can get a pretty good swoop out of it, or even sink it in like a freakin rock.... plus, from what I understand, it's one of the most forgiving canopies on the market.
I however, jump a sabre, and absolutely love it. It has yet to hammer me on opening, but I'm sure it's coming.LOL Actually, all my openings have been really soft, other than the occasional off-heading opening (due to my sorry-ass packing skills I'm sure). LOL Anyway, at about a 1.15:1 wingloading, it's very responsive, and has incredible breaking power.... of course, all I really have to compare it to is the Mantas & Skymasters that I learned on.
The best advice is demo, demo, demo. I wished I would have taken the opportunity to demo some different canopies myself...I'm sure I would have stuck with the Sabre, but it would have been nice to be able to form my own opinions! "Peace & Blue Skies!"

[Iflyme 0]

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.. Most modern rigs - with the exception of the Dolphin - are freefly friendly..

We've been thru this before, up/down/over/under in fact! Dolphin 2000 containers (in production since April of 1998) ARE freefly friendly.
And back to being "experienced" ... I've been jumping since may/98. That's almost 3 years... I've done about 45 jumps in the past year (since I got my own gear). Although I've got just 77 jumps now, I have been studying this sport pretty much every day for the past couple of years... but that doesn't make me experienced. It's how much time you have spent in freefall and under canopy that counts. AT 200 jumps you can get a document that says "D" on it, but when compared to skydivers who have over 1000 jumps, you still have a longggggg way to go (IMHO). There are a couple of people at my DZ with over 24 hours of freefall time. Now THAT is experienced! But I get what you mean, Kirshan, about how we are catagorized by the manufacturing industry!
Frank

[Aviatrr 0]

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Now, now Mike, the new Dolphins are plenty freefly friendly. I know several people who freefly with Dolphins, including me. There is no exposed bridle on the new Dolphins. There is also velcro keeping everything stationary under the covers. The older Dolphins don't have this, however.

Ah, well.. I stand corrected.. I guess I have only seen the older Dolphins.. The last sitfly I did with a guy jumping a Dolphin had lots of riser out there flapping around, and a bit of bridle too.. That pretty much ended our sitfly - about 20 seconds after exit..
Mike

[Aviatrr 0]

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Pam just started jumping her Triathlon, and just to be clear... they are also available in entirely ZP fabric, because that's what her's is... and yes, it's very easy to pack!

DOH! I guess I was either tired or just not thinking when I wrote that message.. I meant to say Hybrid or all ZP.. Sorry..

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Again, for clarity sake... the Triathlon is a 7-cell canopy.... Just don't want anybody to get confused!

7 cells?! Damn.. I knew I should've learned to count somewhere along the line.. Once again, I'm gonna plead tired.. I guess I need to start proofreading my posts before sending 'em..
Mike

[grasshopper 0]

I believe the hybrid triathalon is all ZP. the hybrid refers to CRW setup. Am I wrong? and if you are looking at the tri, I'd check out the spectre instead. they have compairable performance and better openings. I have packed tri's for many people and have more complaints of hard openings on tri's than anything, including sabres.