ot... jury duty...

[cam 0]

on the death penalty and civilized countries.
countries with the death penalty:
Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, Singapore, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia...USA
countries without the death penalty:
Australia, New Zealand, France, Canada, UK, Germany....
and i don't have the stats but i'd be damn surprised to learn that the countries 'with' had lower homicide rates than the countries 'without'

[Iflyme 0]

Ya... well I'm pretty sure that if you took all those guns away from people in the US, you'd have a lot fewer than 30,000 people getting shot and killed every year, and a lot less desire for Capital Punishment...
And yes, I think if someone did terrible things to my family, or something like Timothy McVeigh did, I'd want them dead, too. But my emotions would be outta control... that's why victims familys don't make those decisions. Personally, I don't believe we have the right to take the life of another, under any circumstances. But - if you want to talk about preventing murders and reducing crime, Americans need to get serious about gun control.
Frank

[Dirtsucks 0]

Gun control? Holy shit, man. When I first registered and started posting here, it was the coolest thing, skydiving, drinking, skydiving, more drinking, none of the bullshit I had to put up with in the “real” world. I never thought in a million years that I’d be here caught up in the whole gun control issue. But I am, so I’m going to add my opinion. If ya don’t like long posts, that’s fine, don’t read it.
Guns are out there, good, honest people have em, and bad guys have em, too. The bad guys, and I mean people who really don’t give a shit anymore, who will end another human being’s life simply for their own gain, will always have guns and other weapons to harm to other people. That statement is not my opinion, that is a FACT. We live in a world with so many good, caring people, but the sad truth is that there are also people who don’t see it that way. I guess you could say that I’m kind of a pacifist, I don’t like violence. In the ideal world, there would be no weapons, and no reason to inflict harm on another person. There would be no guns, no hate, no nukes, etc., I could go on and on. But that ideal world doesn’t yet exist. We can make a law that takes guns out of our hands. There are lots of stupid people out there. Stupid people that let their guns get in the hands of their kids. People that let their emotions take control and use a gun to harm or kill somebody. Those people should not be allowed that opportunity. But there are also people who are sick of all of this murder, rape, kidnapping, assault, whatever bullshit that there is no excuse for. This happens every day, as I’m typing this, and as you are reading this. I sure as hell ain’t Rambo, I don’t think I should take an AK-47 and kill anyone who may (in my mind) pose a threat to myself and others. That’s just plain ignorant and stupid. But I also don’t want to be that guy who gets half his head blown off because some dipshit wants a couple of bucks. I’m not trying to be funny, that’s reality. I want to be the guy who gets threatened and then says, “I don’t think so, I ain’t no God damn target” as I’m aiming my .40 at his head. Yes, it’s violence, but it would have been that whether I had a gun or not. But without that weapon, I’d be another victim, and with it, that guy would have had some things to think about. My point is, if you want to disarm America, then we won’t have guns, but the bad guys will, they always will. The kids at Columbine had illegal weapons, and the law didn’t stop em did it? Like I said, I’m a pacifist, I’m not some macho guy that needs to talk shit to feel cool. But I’m also realistic, any desire to end violence in a peaceful manner won’t shield you from the lead about to tear through your body. It’s a very, very grim reality, but it is reality. I WANT to end it. I’m not a psychologist and I’ll admit that I don’t understand what goes through a person’s head as they willingly kill somebody. But I don’t need to understand it to know that it’s wrong, and I want to have the God given right to protect the lives of myself and others . If it takes a deadly weapon to accomplish that, then it’s truly sad, but I still won’t surrender that right.
Man, that “Return to Innocence” song by Enigma is really cool right now. See yah! Josh

[Shark 0]

FFF,
We still Keel-Haul don't we???
Black skies!!!
Shark

[miked10270 0]

Hi there,
Some folk have posted in favor of the death penalty "if properly administered".
This may not have made the news much in the US, so I'd like to draw your attention to the cases of terrorist bombings in the UK in the 1970's (not so long ago) that involved "The Birmingham Six" & "The Guildford Four".
Not only did these "terrorists" confess to the bombings (in very accurate detail), but they were also conclusively convicted by the best forensic scientific evidence of the day. The fact they withdrew their confessions was ignored in the face of the totally conclusive forensics. In the US they would have been killed.
One small problem (or two)... While they were known terrorist sympathisers their "confessions" were what could be most charitably termed as "assisted" by police officers who were under enormous pressure to "get a result". This was compounded by the forensic scientist who decided to "help the police" when he gave his "irrefutable" evidence.
While I firmly believe that "life" should mean life (not 20, 30 or even 40 years), I cannot agree with the death penalty simply because an innocent man can be later released from prison, but a dead man cannot be brought back to life!
Innocent people HAVE been convicted of terrible crimes, convicted "beyond reasonable doubt" and have later been found to be innocent!!! The justice system is not absolutely infallible... It may be the best we can come up with but would any of you be willing to "Bet Your Life" on it, 'cos that's what the death penalty entails.
Mike D10270.

[Iflyme 0]

Well stated, Mike.

[gus 1]

I've always considered the death penalty a bit of a cop-out, if I was sentanced to life I'd *rather* end it right there and then. Wouldn't spending the rest of your life in jail be worse?
Surely the whole point of the death penalty is to act as a deterant, to show criminals what will happen if they murder someone or bomb buildings? But it doesn't work, I don't know the stats but it seems to me that the US doesn't have significantly less 'capital' crimes than anywhere else.
Just my £0.02
Gus

[cloud9 0]

I gotta lean how to do that in reply to stuff!!
I didn't mean to duck your question Iflyme, I just got busy at work and had to take off. The 30,000 people you speak of (sounds like hand gun control incorp.) First lets rule out accidents, suicides, and justifiable homicide. That leaves maybe half. Now does capital punishment help the dead. Nope its for the living. Like I said before If you put some one to death they will never kill again period. Thats a deterant to them. How about life in prison. Well the truth is most states do not have life with out parole. In fact a life sentence in a lot of states is considered 20 years. Where do I get this figure? I was a cop for 11 years I have seen it many times. I have also seen killers who have killed before, were out after serving a sentence or had escaped. Once dead they are no longer a threat. As stated earlier you have juries who may not see things the same, and decide on something less then life. The only guarantee I've seen that a person will not kill an innocent person again is the death penalty. As said before everyone has thier own beliefs and thats what makes a free country great. (you can) What about innocent folks put to death. It has most likely happened at one time or another, its not a perfect system. But I wouldn't feel any better putting an innocent person in prison for life vs. putting them to death. So its the only system we have untill something better comes along.
Some fun eh!

[cloud9 0]

Well Cam
You have a good point except. Look at the prisons in countries without the death penalty. You go to a real prison, not a glorified rehab center. They have mandatory sentences, you go for a long time. No judge or bleeding heart liberal is going to get you a lighter sentence or more movies, or a college degree. The US has all of that and the prison's are not that hard to escape from because of it. Thier killers stay behind bars and are punished. Ours are not, unless you execute them.
Some fun eh!

[Zennie 0]

Quote

I've always considered the death penalty a bit of a cop-out, if I was sentanced to life I'd *rather* end it right there and then. Wouldn't spending the rest of your life in jail be worse?

This is exactly why Timothy McVeigh stopped his appeals and requested his execution go forward (currently somtime in mid-May).
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[mountainman 0]

I think that people who do horrible things to other people don't deserve to escape their misery and get executed. I think they should spend 60 yrs in a federal "pound-me-in-the-ass" prison, getting gang raped and beat everyday of their life. I know this sounds pretty cold-hearted, but if something happened to you or someone you love, you would feel the same...especially if you don't believe in taking a life. And Zennie....this is probably the reason he quit his appeals.
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Iflyme 0]

Quote

So its the only system we have untill something better comes along.

It's the only system YOU have. My country wisely abolished Capital Punishment more than 25 years ago. Hey, this is fun - debating skydiving/capital punishemt in one thread, and skydiving/religion in another!