Ok lets quit this bad news crap.

[kevin922 0]

C'mon.. dropzone is turning into the Incident Reports page that Parachutist no longer has. I think it is important to learn from others mistakes and what not, but it seems like I sit on the edge of my seat to see what the new "FrontPage" of dropzone.com is going to be - and undoubtedly it seems to have something about a person dying every time. (This update has 2 such articles, one of which doesn't even state the source of the article, date or where the alleged incident even occurred). Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't all learn from these incidents or forget those who die doing the sport - but c'mon. Lets have some good news as well.
What really is motivating me to write this is this scenario: Lets say you are someone interested in getting in the sport - searching for parachuting on yahoo (Recreation > Outdoor > Skydiving) brings up what? dropzone.com. (#1). So you go to dropzone.com to find out about the sport and the first thing you see are 2 notices about people who have died from the sport. You think that person will continue their interest in the sport? Parachutist (when they had the IRs) didn't stick it on the front cover, I don't think dropzone.com should either.
Dropzone.com has become (In my opinion) one of the best resources for experienced skydivers as well as for those who are interested in getting into it. I would hate to think it is deterring more people than encouraging them.
Just my opinion.

[mountainman 0]

Quote

I would hate to think it is deterring more people than encouraging them

I agree that posting these incidents on here is important, but maybe should be on another page rather than the front. I think the front could be better used with some colorful picutres and stories like FFF's from last time.
Just to show my thought, my buddy wanted to do a tandem the next time I go to jump and wanted to learn more about it. Naturally, I sent him to this site and the first thing he saw was like 5 or more deaths on the front page.
Needless to say, he won't jump now and neither will anymore of my friends. No matter how much I explain, they still say, "It can happen to you." Yo Sangiro, I just think that it is something to think about (although I'm sure you've done that a lot!)
Thanks for listening.NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Greg 0]

I thought the story about the "misunderstanding" at Coventry, although, as you have mentioned, bad news, was an interesting story. I would rather read about it somewhere, than not hear about it at all. Although there is some sort of emphasis on getting more people into the sport, IMHO, I believe that people that are already involved want/need to hear these kinds of things to possibly alert them to potentially dangerous trends, unsafe activities/behavior, and certainly, at least for me, provides a reminder, that although so much fun, this is a potentially dangerous pass time.
Greg A-37958

[kevin922 0]

Oh by all means I sincerely think that skydivers need to know about these things - i'm simply saying that it should be in a spot that the experienced people know about, not on the front of the website where it is the first thing everyone sees.

[sangiro 26]

I hear you....
I report the news I can find and unfortunately I sometimes have a few hours on a Sunday night to browse the web and scan rec.skydiving for leads, fire people emails and ask a few questions. (I have a pretty busy "day job") The result of this kind of search is more often than not a bunch of bad news. I don't post bad news because I like it. I post bad news because that's all I can find.
I have asked in this forum multiple times that people help me by writing stories, articles, columns, interviews whatever. Just email me your idea and I'll support you in any way I can. I have access - or can get it - to a lot of big names in skydiving..... just tell me who or what you'd like to write about or do an interview with.
Write me a report about a boogie you've been to, a column on what happened at your DZ, a lesson you've learned, your opinion on a new trend, your observations on the latest raining methods, your opinion on USPA fees...anything! If you have acceptable to good writing skills and you can string a bunch of sentences together in a coherent and interesting way that's nice and informative, humorous, factual... I'll probably jump at it.
Write about what you think others would like to read - not only about what you would like to read. Go for it. Make suggestions.
Offer to scan the web and rec.skydiving for me on a daily basis, hunt for story leads, fire off some emails for more info, write it all up and turn it into an article... I'll take it!
There are people in this forum who write the funniest stuff - write some satire! A good piece of satire per week and I'll spice up the home-page with something funny all the time and bring the smile back.
A lot of people on this forum has already submitted and contributed some great content and stories. I thank you!
Guys, one difference between Dropzone.com and Parachutist is: they have a staff, I don't. But I do have a community and if you folks jump in and push me content I can have a "virtual staff" that span the globe. We can have more relevant stories and articles on here so fast that by the time it hits the printed press...it's old news!
I truly believe Dropzone.com is a community. I'll keep on working my ass off to make sure this is the best place to hang out and that this site paints a picture of our sport that we are happy for whuffo's to see, but I'm having a hard time doing all that all by myself though. Safe swoops
Sangiro

[mountainman 0]

I am going to go with Greg on this one. First of all, people will find out soon enough how dangerous skydiving can be. But they need to get into it and be interested before that ever happens. I think there should be a link to it on the front page, but not have the stories themselves on the front page.
It is important to know, but not everytime I come to dz.com and certainly not the first thing one sees when they first visit the site.
Again, it's IMHO of course.
bluz
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[skreamer 1]

Here are some of my thoughts on dropzone.com :
*I found my *new* rig on this web-site
*I researched dropzones in California on this site before I flew out for a week's holiday there in March (read my review for Skydance)
*I get lots of really good tips and advice on this site (eg I finally learnt to roll in a track/backtrack after trying a suggestion given me on this site)
*I get a helluva lot of entertainment and pleasure from reading posts (thank you FFF and MikeD) on this site and contributing to them
*I have made lots of new friends through this site (and have already met up with 3 dz.commers subsequently)
* I researched my first NEW rig (Wings, hornet, tempo) on this site and am ordering it from Rigs n Things after reading good recommendations for Roy and his shop on this site)
* Even though I am a beginner I can communicate with and learn from some top skydivers from all around the world on this site
*This site is blindingly fast
*This site is free
*I'll say that again : this site is FREE!!!
*This site is packed with great features (like private messages and a 2Mb web-based mail account)
I could think of lots more stuff, but my point is just that we have a good thing going here. Sangiro is right, lets start making an effort and contributing ideas and/or material.
Regarding scaring off potential jumpers :
Me, personally, I don't give a shit about anybody who gets scared off making a tandem jump because they read about fatalities on this site. If they had half a brain their immediate reaction should be to look up the jump statistics on the net (ie total jumps made vs. related fatalities per annum) and then make an informed decision about whether or not they want to jump. Anybody who really wants to become a skydiver will do their homework and then go for it via whatever progression method suits them. There is enough tandem luggage out there, I don't believe the odd person getting scared off because they read about fatalities is going to result in tandem masters and camera flyers going hungry this summer. Anyway I can promise you that those same whuffos who view this site will also make searches in Google for things like 'skydiving maimed dead very dead f@cking dead'. If you average out the worldwide fatalities every year, then that means that just about every week somebody dies in the sport (note I said worldwide). Why should these tragedies not be front page *news* on DZ.com? How would you feel if (God forbid) one of your best friends bounced and then the report was hidden away on DZ.com where only the experienced jumpers could view it? Would that be a fitting farewell/obituary for your friend? I think not.
Remember this site is there primarily for us the skydivers, if it encourages landlubbers to try the sport after reading up on it on this site, then good for them, good for us and good for the sport. It doesn't take long browsing on this site to start getting educated anyway.
Sangiro, please don't hide the fatalities/incidents away.
There, I think that was more than my £0.01/$0.02 worth.
Will

[wingnut 0]

sangiro,
as soon as i can find anything worth writing about i'll send it your way. this "comunity" is the best. it's my dz away from my dz....actually i spend more time here than at the dz!

"if dreams are like movies, then memories are like films about ghosts"-counting crows

[kevin922 0]

Will,
You are obviously a jumper with the same ideas as me as far as my personal views. I don't care (personally) about all of the incident reports, it isn't going to stop me from jumping. I can learn from them and such but i'm not going to stop jumping. HOWEVER - I still feel you are wrong in your statements about tandem masters and not loosing their lunch over an IR. Yeah they aren't going to go hungry, but i'm not looking at this from a money making point of view. I'm looking at this from the point of view that skydivers are not around every corner - they are a close nit community which has been progressively getting larger over the years (partially due to movies such as drop zone and the such). I personally like to see new people getting into the sport, and would love to see it grow. The more people involved the more different talents you will bring into the sport thus new innovative things will come out of it (take dropzone.com for example, the talent of a few people who are skydivers put together a great resource online for jumpers). Who the hell knows, the guy who gets interested tommorow may be the guy who thinks up the thing that makes hook turns safe *shrug*. A computer that can bail you out if you do something stupid? Hey, it could happen - and it could happen from the engineer who just thought it would be fun to do a tandem one weekend.
I live by a few mottos in life: "f!ck it", "be careful of the feet you step on today, they might be connected to the a$$ you have to kiss tommorow" "what goes around comes around" and finally "you never get a second chance to make a first impression". DZ.com may be the first impression some people get from skydiving, and if an IR is the first thing they read it will stick with them - now you could argue that is good and bad, good because maybe they'll be super safe when skydiving or bad because they won't do the tandem they were thinking about.
I will try and do my effort to help out around here and submit some storys.. I've talked off and on with troy hartman in the past (The Sensless Acts of video (MTV)) parachutist and probably can interview him with no problem... At any rate, I still don't think those incident reports need to be front page. I understand the delimmas with finding stories and such - but I don't see the problem with putting the incident reports in a seperate section.

[sangiro 26]

Ok - now give me the good news, and stop getting dead....that way don't have to put it on the front page!
Safe swoops
Sangiro

[mountainman 0]

Quote

I don't believe the odd person getting scared off because they read about fatalities is going to result in tandem masters and camera flyers going hungry this summer.

This isn't the point, as kevin pointed out. The point is that there are people who may join this great sport of skydiving who won't do so because of some stuff they read. That is all I'm trying to say.
Sangiro...I would love to do an interview, write something, or do whatever to help out this website.
All I'm trying to say is that I would rather see a large article about the Rodriguez Brothers (history, bio, etc, etc), Troy Hartman (I too e-mail with him), or checking out small, unknown, beautiful DZs from Europe or something. However, I do understand that you are only one person, Sangiro, and cannot do all of this by yourself, but if you ever have an idea for something, shoot it my way, as I am very resourceful for finding stuff.
All in all, thanks for an AWESOME site!! I am on this like 5 hrs per day, at least. Later...
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Donna 0]

Quote

The point is that there are people who may join this great sport of
skydiving who won't do so because of some stuff they read.

I'm sorry but I think that if they won't do it after reading some accurate information regarding the sport then maybe they shouldn't be doing it anyway. They should try the sport after knowing the actual dangers and then making an informed decision that this is a risk that they are willing to take.
Just my 2 cents,
D

[MarkM 0]

Quote

So you go to dropzone.com to find out about the sport and the first thing you see are 2 notices about people who have died from the sport. You think that person will continue their interest in the sport?

I went through and read all the fatality incidents before I jumped and I'm in the sport.
Maybe those people that decide not to jump after reading about a couple fatalities shouldn't be jumping?

[mountainman 0]

Quote

I think that if they won't do it after reading some accurate information regarding the sport then maybe they shouldn't be doing it anyway

I don't wanna start flame wars here, but could've sworn that there was a thread about how INaccurate some of these articles. What is in most of them??? YES..."the parachute failed". This is not giving them the whole story. This is telling them that people die because of the equipment and nothing to do with pilot error. (exeption: low hook turns..but they don't know what that is)
All I am trying to say is that a opening page should be inviting...not reek of death. I know that's a bit harsh and exageratting(sp), but it's what I think.
Oh well, Sangiro does an excellent job with this website and I have no complaints, only some thoughts on what I think would make it a little more inviting for newbies.Blu skyz
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[PLFKING 4]

Hi guys (and gals)--
I don't think anyone is trying to "flame" anyone else -- so far all I've seen are two sides of a story, and each side was presented fairly and honestly.
Sangiro has done and continues to do a great job with this site, and I know we are all thankful and appreciative of his efforts.....that goes without saying. If he needs some help with stories and time, we should make the effort to help him.........after all, reading the safety tips that all the old-timers give on this forum doesn't cost us a thing, and I know all of ya'll's help has been invaluable to me personally.
I think the front page should be for front page news (this forum is no different from a newspaper in that respect). If someone gets turned off from the idea of diving because of what they read, then they are using that information to make a decision that will affect their lives, and that's fine........that's why God gave us brains in the first place -- to use them. I read all the incident reports I could find before I did my first S/L, and realized that this sport was actually a lot safer than my or any of my friend's perceptions at the time. Having jumped for 8 months now, I can definitely say that it is a safe sport, if you mind your Ps and Qs (or as safe as it can be, anyway). As someone once told me "It's not WHAT you're doing, it's WHERE you're doing it."
One vote for "leave 'em on the front page."
The PLF Pontificator

[kevin922 0]

Perhaps we need some clarification from Sangiro as to how HE sees this site being setup. If it is like a newspaper, then yes the top news goes on the front page reguardless of type. However, newspapers (at least mine, nick named the Clarion Liar (instead of ledger) due to the large amount of mis-reported news that they report...) seem to be ruthless - they blow death way out of proportion because that is what the american society ironically lives off of. We are constantly going to see the new gruesome movie out (hey BTW, along came a spider is quite good, and morgan freeman is from my home state!), love to hear about the disfunctional familys jerry springer presents, and can't wait to read about the latest murder mystery. Okay, that may be a bit of a generalization but still part of it is true. I'm simply saying (and standing by my point) i personally saw/see this site as not only a tool for experienced jumpers (gear reviews, safety issues, and a place for exp. skydivers to hang out) but also as a resource for people wanting to get into the sport. I knew people would argue that if you get scared away from IRs then maybe you shouldn't be in the sport, but c'mon that isn't necessarily true. We are doing a sport that goes against all of our god given instincts, of course people who aren't doing the sport are going to be a little reserved about getting into it (unless you're just a "true" skydiver at heart :) ) but once they are into it they either love it or hate it. I think everyone should try a tandem once if nothing at all.
For the person who made the point about moving the IRs to a place not as "in your face" saying that "how is that a way to remember your friend who died in the sport" (or some variation of that statement) - you'll have to take into consideration, (from what i've heard) just about after every one of these deaths they continue jumping that day, that urks me more than moving IRs. If someone died at my DZ the day i was jumping, I would stop jumping that day to sort of pay my respects to them.

[skreamer 1]

Quote

If someone died at my DZ the day i was jumping, I would stop jumping that day to sort of pay my respects to them.

I'd manifest myself for the very next load, and probably shed a tear or two for them on the climb to altitude. The same as when I have my first reserve ride one day, I am going to want to get back in the air as quickly as possible and deal with any demons before they start screwing with my head. But, to each their own. Grief is a very personal thing, and nobody has the right to tell you how to deal with it - I would respect your decision to stand down, just as you should respect my decision to make another jump the same day.
But we are getting off the topic here, I think I am going to put out a quick poll, so we can see what everybody else thinks about where the IRs should go.
Will