Ex's, Children and Skydiving

[Pammi 0]

Out of curiosity, how many others of you with children and ex-spouses have been accused of irresponsibility for skydiving? I actually had my ex try to use the fact that I skydive as a reason that he should have the kids with him...which is hilarious considering the fact that he's pulled a gun on his now wife already (we won't get into all that vicious mud-slinging tho or the issue of how he doesn't think he should have to pay any child support since I would just 'waste' it skydiving and neglect the kids' needs! ).
Anyway, it just makes me a little nervous and I'm thinking of arguments that I can use that a whuffo can understand for the judge since I 'get to go to court' again in a few weeks and I'm sure it'll be brought up again.
Pammi
"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
http://trak.to/skydivechick

[froggie 0]

Pammi,
okay, no ex's no children. but heres my thoughts..
if the issue is brought up again, try to deter it.. he says skydiving, you talk about how its taught you how to be safe in all aspects of life. ie: you realize that the children are at a risk when they cross the street, go to school. etc etc. so youve taught them to look out for the little things that can make life dangerous. He says skydiving has taken over your life, you tell the judge how skydiving have brought you in contact with many different people, from all over the world. Give examples. Name countries of people visiting your dropzone. see how more Open to people of different backgrounds you are now since you started skydiving/interminglilng with these people? He says it takes away from your time, you say that its a chance to bond w/ the kids. They love to hear the stories. and more importantly, they are proud of mommy and Merrick (or is it daddy to them?). The kids admire their parents. This is soemthing that lots of children cant do. And since they are proud that their parents "jump outta planes cause their skydivers" (said with wide eyes to the other children on the playground) it makes them feel good.. feeling good results in good self esteem. He says you waste your money that could be spent on the children. You give details explaining how every week you budget. and skydiving comes into the picture only after all else has been paid. He says you can die skydiving, you say : "at least with one parent (merrick) theyde have a better care giver than if they stayed with you!" (sorry, nasty remark. it just slipped out )
in any case pammi, skydiving has taught you a lot. It just might be time to put all that new knowledge to use... You learned it all pammi, and i know that you can use it right!
kel

[Divadiver 0]

Pammi:
Last time I was in court, that very subject arose! The ex's lawyer wanted to know how often I jump, how many jumps, what the jumps cost, what the rent gear cost, everything but body position and did I PLF or stand em!!
Are you going before the same judge as the last time this was brought up? It could be a case of Old news - let's move on. You should talk to your lawyer, I'm sure he/she has an idea of what type of Judge this person is. (like the woman judge we tried to avoid at all lengths because, now get this - she hates women! Not a good thing when you and your lawyer are both female.)
In my case it had nothing to do with my son and how he was being raised, but the fact that I had funds to spend on amusing myself!! Sh*t I was married for 15 years and only went on one vacation with the man, so yes, it was probably a little hard for him to swallow that I was out having fun. Skydiving was my vacation last year, each and every weekend, Thursday or Friday that I could get to the DZ!
Wait until he hears what I'll be doing this summer!! Watch out for those steaming piles!! He's going to blow a big one!!
Here's to you girl - much luck!!
Divadiver

[Greg 0]

Hey Pammi, Boy, can I relate to that!! I have an ex from hell, and it doesnt even have to be "skydiving", it can be anything. For example, I like to have a few beers on the weekends for sure, but also maybe 2 or 3 after work as well. Well, as she knew this, when we got divorced, she took me to court, made me go through 18 months of random drug testing, yes to look for alcohol!! Since we divorced, I have started skydiving. I try not to let her know that I do it, but, my daughter talks!! Unfortunatly, it has now become, somewhat of an issue, as I want to skydive, but the ex wants me to spend all my weekends at soccer practice and such. Ive been told not to take her to the dz anymore. It sucks!!

[Pammi 0]

Thanks so much guys for the advice and encouragement. You're right Kel, the kids would be much better off with Merrick if something ever *did* happen to me. Merrick and I have talked about it extensively, even to the kids, and they want to be with him in such an instance. It's actually the only thing that has worried me at all, is that legally they might not be able to. However, I don't know if the ex will actually want them full-time if it ever really came down to it...he just likes to torment me from time-to-time. I don't think he realizes that I would give up anything and everything if it was a choice between anything and the kids. I even told Merrick that when we first started dating. If I'd felt like he wasn't good for them, I would dumped him like a hot potato no matter how *I* felt about him. And as to the financial aspects, it's really just the point behind the child support. I don't feel like someone should get the 'fun' of spending time with the kids whenever they want without taking on some of the responsibility of it also. Daycare and medical stuff is expensive! Besides all the lessons, new clothes and so forth!
And really, how can anyone talk of being irresponsible when he *fu'ed* his co-worker while his wife and son were on a lifewatch flight trying to save his son's life??
Sorry, spouting! I'll hush now...not trying to start a 'hate session'. Much apologies!
I don't know about the judge...it's a new one that took over when the one we had retired, but that one was aweful! I used to work as a legal secretary so I knew all three of them, and he was the only one who was very anti-women (many times divorced himself). So it can't be worse! :) I just never can actually get people to believe what kind of person he is when I try to tell them, so I've pretty much given that up. I'll just do like you guys suggested and explain how much skydiving helps me and the kids, and how much they love coming to the DZ with us! I also plan on bringing statistics and such just in case and giving it to my atty.
Thanks for letting me vent guys!
Pammi
"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
http://trak.to/skydivechick

[lummy 4]

Pammi,
Good luck in court. I hope everything turns out for the best for your kids sake.
Luckily for me, My ex hasn't brought up Skydiving as an issue. Then again, it's probably just a matter of time, She's a psycho as it is and will use anything to make my life miserable

[Jessica 0]

Quote

Then again, it's probably just a matter of time, She's a psycho as it is and will use anything to make my life miserable

Geez, y'all. Note to self: don't get married!

• Quote

[miked10270 0]

Hi Pammi,
Relax... Bear in mind that Judges are generally VERY conservative in their outlook on life. They tend to adhere to the "Nuclear Family" model where "Daddy" goes out to work and provide while "Mommy" raises the kids. As such, if "Daddy" is expected to work & provide, then how much time could he spend with the kids? You don't say how long you've been separated but I asume it's been a while and that the kids have stayed with you since the separation. This raises the issue of "continuity of upbringing"... I.E. such a massive change is NOT in the best interests of the children!!! How much access has he exercised with his kids since seperation - if it's not much, then he's not forming the bond - if it's a lot then what difference in quality time with the kids would there be if he actually had custody AND worked?
Now to the issue of your "repeatedly attempting suicide" (Skydiving). Impress on the judge that "Yes I skydive". "It is an established sport and I jump at places where skydiving is regulated by the USPA & FAA" "All the equipment I use is maintained in accorance with FAA regulations (just like airlines)". "The chances of actually dying or suffering irreversible disability is rather less than minimal". "For example, if road accidents were reported in the same depth as skydiving accidents, then each daily paper would be roughly the thickness of The Encyclopaedia Brittanica Large Print Edition"!!! Do a little research - like #No. of skydiving deaths & serious injuries per annum against #No. of fatal & serious Road Accidents, Firearms accidents in the home... Etc...
Now for a small suggestion as to his motive... "He is seeking custody of the kids in an effort to avoid maintenance". Hint at his payment record, never mind his suggestion that you don't spend it on the kids, Judges have heard that one all to often before & their attitude sems to be "Keep Paying in the meantime".
Good luck, not that you'll need it,
Mike D10270

[mountainman 0]

Man, I guess that I am getting lucky here being on my first marriage and having a wife that enjoys skydiving. I guess this will never be an issue for me than (not that I'm planning on anything happeningGood luck Pammi!!
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[PalmettoTiger 1]

Mike - I'm working up the skydiving vs. driving comparison right now. The latest complete numbers for driving are 1997, so if anyone can give me the total USPA membership in '97 and the total US Skydives in 1997 I'd really appreciate it - I've scoured the web already.
PS Cross-posted this in Safety & Training Forum and I will cross-post the results as well.
Blues, squares,
PTiger

[Jeji 0]

Pammi,
That stinks that your ex needs to be that way. Don't have an ex so I can't really offer any advice as far as going to court, ah ta ta... but during a few "heated debates" in our house of late, hubbie has hinted arount that if I tried to leave him he'd take the kids and what judge would give me custody of our children when I toss myself out of perfectly good airplanes for kicks. No big deal, I don't see divorce anytime in the future, we just have alot going on in our lives right now. BUT... apparently these thought have occured to him and since he and his family are very well tied into the "good ol' boy network" (read: his dad probably knows every judge south of the C&D Canal!!!!) I figured I had better cover my a**, so I started a journal of all of the completely dumb, irresponsible, and inconsiderate things that he has a habit of doing. That way I have it in writing, not just pulling random memories out of the back of my head. I know that this won't work for you if you are on your way to court anytime in the near future, but it is something to think about. I figured if it (god help) ever came down to my word against his, mine will be documented. Heck maybe I'll even have pages randomly noterized just to prove the dates!!! Sorry guys, we really do love ya, but the kids always come first!!!!!!!!!!
Jessi Ü

[mountainman 0]

Quote

so I started a journal of all of the completely dumb, irresponsible, and inconsiderate things that he has a habit of doing.

This is not a good sign. Sorry to have to break it to you, but if you are DOCUMENTING the stuff that he does, it seems like you are preparing for it. Writing down everything that he does is not healthy.
I don't really care who flames me for this, but it's true. Hell, I've seen Oprah before. When you write stuff like that and "get it randomly notarized", you are doomed.
NEW AND IMPROVED!!!
http://home.woh.rr.com/brandonandlaura/

[Divadiver 0]

Jeji:
Mountainman took the words right out of my mouth! It sure doesn't look/sound good when you have to cover your own a** in your own house!! Besides, you know that little book that we like to log our jumps in, that's documentation as well - only for him and not you.
Good luck Jeji!

[Jeji 0]

I know it sounds horrible, it probally is. I guess I've just seen too many decent women and men lose their kids because of who their ex just happens to know.(the same that dear hubbie knows) Call it small town politics if you will. A year ago this would have never occured to me, but after a friend of mine had to ship her kids off to Florida to live with daddy because she was unfit (something about her working too much because he didn't pay child support) I said to myself, I love my hubbie and have no intention of leaving him, but... neither did she, and when her husband left her for her best friend I imagine it never occured to her that her kids would end up 1000 miles away!!!!!!!!!!! It might be awful, but it's also a reality!!!
Jessi Ü

[chronistin 0]

This is terrible. One thing I just can't understand is how a person can end up trying to hurt someone they once said they love. I've seen it happen so many times, just can't understand it...
Hope you find an understanding judge!
Andrea || Chronistin

[Zennie 0]

Ted's Soapbox #53....
You see this happening a lot because people are never satisfied with what they have. That, and because we live in a disposable society, if something's inconvenient, we don't work through it, we just ditch it.
I'm not particularly religious, but I do honor my promises. I made a solemn vow with Liz. I promised that I'd stick by her no matter what. I promised that I'd always be faithful to her. Sure living up to those promises is hard sometimes, sure there have been time where I've questioned whether it was worth it. But we worked through the problems, compromised, heard each other out and our relatinship got even stronger. Most worthwhile commitments are like that.
Relationships are work, but most people are too damn lazy and selfish to work at it.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's the woman's fault. If the husband is totally unwilling to be faithful to her or provide any sort of emotional support, there's not a whole lot you can do but end it -- there's no relationship anymore (if there ever was one). It's the guy's fault in that case for not honoring his commitments.
<>
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[Pammi 0]

Guys, I just really don't know what to say. I was a bit leary about posting this topic because I didn't want to stir up hard feelings and such, which ex's always seem to bring up. I didn't want to sound like a 'man hater', because I most definately am not. But the support that I've received from everyone, the advice, the well-wishes was more then I expected. It's so true that when you skydive, you have family all over the world. It's especially true here on Dz.com.
Thank you everyone for...everything (including the laugh Mike *smile*). I hope that all of my worrying will be for nothing and it'll be just another bluff to stir up trouble. He certainly doesn't show much interest in them normally, calling maybe once a month, forgetting birthdays and refusing to take them last year for a month in the summer even tho he'd requested it himself...Don't we all wish we could just be parents when it was convenient?! Nah...although it would be easier, just look at all he's missing out on too :)
(And Jeji, good luck to you!! I see both sides of what you are saying. I wish I had kept better track of all of the things that happened, but I tried 'being nice' and believing it wouldn't come to that. Numerous counselors later, there we were. I hope it turns out better for you!!)
Thanks again guys. I love you all!
Pammi
"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live."
http://trak.to/skydivechick

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

If you have an ex that is giving you a hard time about taking your child to the DZ, or even you jumping without the kid around, then the spouse was obviously not cool with you jumping in the first place.
My wife and I do not have any kids yet, but I wish to relay to you how it was for me when my folks divorced when I was seven years old..To preface that, I must say that my mother was not ever a "DZ wife". She tollerated my dad's habit, but never once hung out on the DZ or wanted to make a jump. Granted, this was the '60s and all men wanted to take their little boys to the DZ. I myself was pulling tension on 28 foot 7-TUs and PCs when I was three years old. I loved the DZ and would cry like a baby(which I was) when I could not go. I loved that shit. Hell, I had a jack-up cushion and wooden blocks made for me so that I could fly the 182 when I was six! When my folks divorced, I was forced to move out of state with my mom. I went back to Alabama to stay with my dad all summer, every summer, plus every other Christmas. My mother never had anything to say about my dad's jumping or flying at all. I guess I was lucky judging my some modern standards. When I started jumping when I was 17, my mother never accused my dad of "forcing" me into the sport. The fact of the matter is that my father, though an Instructor and S&TA (ASO back then, for you old guys), he had nothing to do with my FJC or intermediate training. My dad never saw me jump until my 50th jump, where we made our first jump as father/son onto our farm.
To the original poster: I would do everything in my power to convince your ex to allow your child to be apart of our big skydiving family. Lord knows it's a better life than slapping them into some bullshit daycare program.
Hope this helps.
Chuck Blue
D-12501, a second-generation hellion who happens to be the son of Buddy Blue D-597.

[skySue 0]

Pammi,
just to say I really feel for you going through all this anguish, I hope it all goes well - there's a lot of us out here with kids and, as you now know for sure, we are all with you on this, hang in there.
Go for it ALL
Sue
PS Thanks from me too Froggie and Mike - in case my 'new' ex decides to take the same line!! and Zennie - keep off the soapbox