pay a packer, set your own brakes?

[Fast 0]

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it seems obvious to me. have never know otherwise.

am i missing something?

I set my own brakes mostly because it keeps the lines from getting messy. I don't unstow the slider most of the time or cock the pilot chute. My main packers have somewhat got me in the habbit of doing the slider but if I am in a hurry I don't even think about it which tends to be the case quite often.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Floats18 0]

Yea yea, I know I can't spell...

way to pick on the retarded kid... you must feel really cool now.

Stratostar is a douchebag... you wouldn't even like him. I heard that he doesn't even drink beer.

Yea and I really don't mind not having to set the brakes... however w/ some people on the dz (and you know who I'm talking about) you always have to take special care to make sure that everything is routed correctly.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[Lindercles 0]

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I generally field stow my brakes, anyway.

I was just wondering why nobody had said this yet. I'm pretty surprised that more people don't do this. It's just part of my immediate post landing routine.

[DougH 270]

I stow my own brakes because I like the way I stow them, and sometimes don't like what other people do with them.

I don't cock my pilot chute.

I unstow my slider because it's kill lines get caught in the grommets when I am trying to gather everything up. It keeps it from being a pain in the ass.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[kimemerson 7]

Back before there was such a thing as packers, a team had to wait till everyone had packed regardless of their skill level. Doing a ton of training jumps was affected by - among other things - how much time a team spent not skydiving. Then when packing for pay began in the early eighties, Billy Weber (packing for the French team Tag, coached by Tommy Piras) suggested that if each team member stowed his/her brakes the team could shave time off the down time and get back up in the air sooner and as a result get more jumping in and be done with the training day earlier. He was right and it worked, He was a team packer and considered an essential part of the team. So it hasn't always been a matter of labor division but of time efficiency. So there's the origin of it. Nowadays your averrage packer probably has more pack jobs than jumps and more than the jumper has jumps or pack jobs of their own. Chances are better that the average packer is better at their job than the critic who owns the rig. Part of the reason for this is that the packer is usually not packing for one person, but for half the damn dz and therefor does not have the luxury of time to spare. So would it hurt the jumper to accept a tad of responsibility for their own stuff and actually assure that some safety measures are taken? Keep in mind, the packer is not packing you your next deployment. They are cleaning up the mess you leave on the floor. You are not obliged to jump a pack job as you could conceivably sell the packed rig if you wish and not actually experience the opening yourself. The notion of a packer has gone from that of a team member working WITH a team as part OF the team, and moved on to become a consumer commodity whereby the customer expects satisfaction without accepting a role in the outcome. A packer ought to be considered your partner on a jump and it cerainly wouldn't hurt to be a team player. The packer has enough to do and if you cannot do small things like set your brakes and re-cock the pilot chute maybe a slot in the opera will do as they are always looking for prima donnas. And frankly, anyone who hires a packer because they cannot pack themselves (as opposed to doing so for the convenience alone) shouldn't be allowed near manifest in the first place. It behooves us all to actually strive to know more than the packer. It's a shame when you can't spot whether the packer has done it right. But I digress...

[Floats18 0]

HERE HERE!!

Way to add some purpose and dignity to my Saturday!

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[jacketsdb23 49]

I never pay for a packer but if I did, I would set the brakes, uncollapse the slider and cock my pilot chute. I wouldn't do it for the packers benefit but for my own peace of mind in the airplane. Those seem to be the three most important items. Now if the canopy comes out of the D-bag and looks like a ball of S**t...we'll i'll kick my own ass for paying someone to pack something that I jump out of an airplane with


Somebody ask Chop Chop if you should cock the pilot chute before giving your rig to someone else to pack..... hmmmm...and he already had the name chop chop before that [those] incidents...

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[tombuch 0]

I usually set the breaks in the landing area, just because I do. I find it pretty easy to land, turn around to face the approaching canopies and stand still, and then stow my breaks. Sometimes I miss that and stow the breaks in the packing area, but not often.

I expect a packer to do the entire pack job. including breaks and pilot chute. That's what packing is. That I do the breaks myself is just something that happens, and not done to make a commercial packer happy.

With that said, I don't usually hire a packer. I'm a rigger myself, and don't feel like spending the 5,6,7,8 or whatever dollars a five minute pack job costs.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Lastchance 0]

I have always set my brakes as soon as i hit the ground before I daisy chain my lines. Mainly so they are not just dangling. Then it just became habit. After every 5 jumps or so while I'm packing I make sure all twists are out of the brake lines also. As for paying someone to pack it the brakes are always set and the slider is always ready. As for the pilot chute I will let them cock it but I always check to make sure that I see blue on my kill line before jumping it. It's part of my gear check I do before every jump.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[matthewcline 0]

For me I set the brakes and do a quick 4 line for my Tandem and sport rig, if it is a Vector II I also place the deployment handle back in place, for the sport rig I set the brakes fix the slider and cock the pilot chute.

I would rather deal with a packer who is placing me in the front of the line and having a little more time to do a neater job.

Hey it could be a quasi tip in a way.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Not to disagree with with what TomB, Strato, Bytch and others have said up-thread... but I've also seen packers who more then once have been known to "forget" to cock people's pilot chutes, don't unstow sliders & not stow brakes correctly... yet still get their rig packed up and off the person goes on the next load.

Again, if you Pay a Packer, You Take Your Chances.

Also... there's another saying... If you want something done right, do it yourself.

Anyway, I understand that if you're team training or at a competition or just too stinkin' rich to pack your own trash, then you're gonna pay a packer...

[stratostar 5]

What deal a team makes with their hired packer is their deal. Most teams have packers who pack only for them.

I talking about hired guns who pack everything on the dz. Packers for the most part only wear the one hat. When people like myself wear a dozen hats at a time in any given hour of the day from, answering phones, video jumps, editing, stills, radio controled skydivers, teaching AFF,S/L,TDM, packing, rigging, taking out the trash, fueling planes, shagging students, AFF jumps, dropping S/L's, debrefing and filling out paper work, S&TA duties, processing incoming students, and supervising packers under my ticket, if I drop my rig or I should say lay it out stright, I don't want to hear some packer crying about taking 2 minutes to do a part of a job their getting paid to do when I have way more shit on my plate to keep the DZ running then they do and thus bringing in more packing dollars to the packers.
Seeing how 75% or more of packers don't have a rigging ticket and have to work under the supervision of a rigger, this rigger says, if you want to pack here for money, then you do the whole job or you can go find some place else to put up with your shit, if I can do all the jobs I do on the dz and still find time to pack every one of my rigs and make back to back loads, then they can find the time to what there getting paid to do or hit the fucking road and don''t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[johnny1488 1]

While I was a full time packer, I was the busiest packer on the DZ. If teams and jumpers wanted me to pack for them, then they set their brakes and reset their sliders. P/C are not needed to be cocked because I always do it no matter what.

With the speed I pack, setting brakes was a major hold up. If I am not busy, I don't care, I'll do it all. But most people paid me to pack quickly so they could jump again. If they want it done quick, they lay it down with brakes set.

Although I have been know to tell people to get out of the way when they are taking their sweet time setting the brakes. I was no nonsense when i worked.

If anyone didn't like it, they could pay someone else. But I was the most experienced and I felt the most reliable packer available, so I had no problem setting my terms.

And for 2 of the 3 years I was a full time packer I had my senior rigging ticket.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[peregrinerose 0]

I am a rigger too

If it's a slow day, I honestly don't care if the person sets brakes or not, it's something I check anyway, the extra minute doesn't matter. The only reason I enforce it on a slow day is so jumpers are used to the routine and I don't have to waste time explaining it when it's busy.

If it's a busy day, 1 minute per pack job of setting brakes and collapsing pilot chutes times 50+ pack jobs in the day, that's almost an hour of time... it adds up, so really does make a huge difference. In that 45-50 extra minutes, I could pack quite a number of rigs... which is money in the DZO's pocket if it's a tandem or instructor rig. That's probably why it's the DZO's policy.

It's something jumpers should be doing when they land anyway, so I don't understand why anyone would take issue with it. In 2 years as packer, I don't think anyone has ever complained about it.

I always cock pilot chutes myself. I also check it 3 times every pack job (when I do it, right before I close the container, and right before I fold the pilot chute). I also check brakes twice... when I lay out the rig and before putting it in the container regardless of who set them.

This rigger says that if you were attitudy with me as packer, your rig would sit there until the brakes were stowed If you were clearly busy as instructor and dropping rigs and were nice to me, I'd have no problem setting brakes for you even though it's against DZ policy. Without even giving you (much of) a hard time. If you are a fun jumper not going crazy with work, there is no reason you can't stow your own brakes, so I don't bend the rules there. Unless you are Rocky.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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I was just wondering why nobody had said this yet. I'm pretty surprised that more people don't do this. It's just part of my immediate post landing routine.

I never do it because I don't like to stand around in the middle of the landing area in the hot sun, waiting to get hit by some toggle-whipping moron. I will stand out there and do that if I just landed from an AFF jump and need to talk the student down on radio anyway, but besides that, forget it. I untwist my brake lines when I lay my canopy down to set my brakes. Likewise, I have to make back-to-backs quite alot and I REALLY don't have time to fuck around then.

Chuck

[AFFI 0]

Yes-
set brakes

cock PC and Slider

Lay it our and get it ready for him to pack -

A nice tip at the end of the day too...
-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[bob.dino 1]

Always set the brakes, uncollapse the slider, and cock the pilot chute yourself. That's a lot of potentially sore malfunctions avoided for 60-90sec work. Gives you peace of mind in the airplane.

[tdog 0]

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I usually set the breaks in the landing area, just because I do. I find it pretty easy to land, turn around to face the approaching canopies and stand still, and then stow my breaks. Sometimes I miss that and stow the breaks in the packing area, but not often.
.

The part about looking back is very important. I can't count how many times I see people not looking back, or worse, start walking without looking.

That is how dogs get run over on the highway. For some reason, skydivers act like dogs in a landing area, but use their kindergarten knowledge on busy roads...

Now, at Eloy or some boogies, I opt to run out of the landing area before a crowd lands then set my brakes on the finish line.

[Peej 0]

When i land from filming tandems most of the time my packer is there waiting to grab my rig anyway so in that case i don't set them. If i have been on a fun jump and i'm not packing for myself, then i stow them every time.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[pierre3636 0]

i always set my own brakes regardless - suppose i dont really have to if i dont pack but then again if i do it im more relaxed ` toggle fire under a loaded canopy or wing suit SUCK

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[slotperfect 7]

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Yes, set your own brakes... un-stow your slider... and cock your pilot chute... AND... if... you pay a packer, you take your chances.

Same for me . . . on the rare occasions I use a packer.

Arrive Safely

John

[sunshine 2]

I prefer if someone sets the brakes for me, but if they don't it's not a big deal. I double check them anyway. I always cock the pilot chute too. As for unstowing the slider, i've noticed some people don't really unstow it all the way so i always re-do it.

I do hate the people that drop their rig off in a big mess. At least clear the PC out of the lines instead of leaving a big puzzle.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[stratostar 5]

Quote

This rigger says that if you were attitudy with me as packer, your rig would sit there until the brakes were stowed If you were clearly busy as instructor and dropping rigs and were nice to me, I'd have no problem setting brakes for you even though it's against DZ policy

Me personally I wouldn't get "attitudy" unless it was recived first. The packers we have (I'm one of them) I don't use them, I'll do it myself because I want it done right, that aside I can't make money if there is no TDM or student rigs packed and they have priority over anything else. (bread and butter of DZ) If you know Skinny all you have to do is ask him if what I say is true, even if he is a lier. I see many people who think their not replace able, packers are a dime a dozen and there will always be a young jumper like Skinny who comes along and is more then happy to work their ass off packing and will do the whole job and do it right to earn jumps and extra cash, Kyle is a classic example of what I'm talking about, he is two years into his skydiving now instead of two more years of dreaming about it and he earned everything he has by working his ass off for it, because someone said "hey kid, you really want jump but have no cash flow, I'll hook you up" and now were stuck with him, wait, I mean you guys are now stuck with him, sorry about your luck......

P.S. not once did I hear Kyle cry about having to set brakes, unstow sliders and cock PC's he always did a good job and with a smile and desire to learn.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[billvon 3,085]

>do the whole job or you can go find some place else to put up with your shit . . .

Please leave this forum for discussion of safety/training issues, and take political threads elsewhere.

[popsjumper 2]

This thread indicates several reasons why I do my own packing (there are only 2 packers I trust):

1. Snotty attitudes (no brake stows, last in line)
2. Potential for some packer to get pissed and purposely not adjust sliders properly.
3. Potential for some packer to get pissed and purposely not set brakes properly.
4. Rush time = less attention to detail
5. The old good ol' boy network (friends first, visitors last)
6. No accountability for the work they do.
7. Doing something unethical and then hiding behind "DZO policy".

Plus,
- If your canopy needs special packing treatment (rolled nose/tail for example) you generally won't get it inless you stand there and physically watch them do it.
- Some packers automatically install special treatments regardless of need and advisibility.
- Packing myself ensures that I get consistent, dependable openings.


PS:
For those who field-stow brakes. It's not wise to be playing in the streets. Merely placing your toggles in the keeper is good, not the entire stowing process.
It is quite rare that field-stowers are actually looking around for traffic...they are the ones all-absorbed in stowing and not paying attention to the toggle jockeys and ALWAYS the first to scream about nearly getting hit in the landing field.

It's my opinion that stowing brakes is part of packing and should be done at the time of packing lest you forget something.

One case I know of is that a field-stower got "distracted" in the field and didn't stow one side and, by habit, didn't check at packing time because stowing brakes was not part of the "packing" procedure.

Having said all that, please just set yourself up with a "standard procedure" that does/checks everything at packing time and stick with it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239