Pammi 0 #26 June 7, 2001 My oh my, what a thread! I agree totally Jessica... It's incredibly sad when a child is molested in any way by any person, but guess what? It's not limited to gays! Please don't even go there. I have a daughter who was molested and it was by a straight male, and I have worked in an environment where I've seen an unfortunate number of other children who've been similarly abused. It's not limited to sexual orientation, race, sex, anything. It's just wrong.What difference does it make who someone is sleeping with anyway? You don't have to understand it or accept it. Not everyone understands why I skydive, but will that stop me from doing it? Um, no. Oh, and just how do you really know who the gay people are around you anyway? Do they have a funny smell perhaps? Hmmm...no, no, I got it! They jump out of airplanes, have a tongue ring and occassionally dye their hair pink! Oh wait...that's me. *wink* Everyone's entitled to their opinions, even you Spectre. So as naive as it may be, it is just that, your opinion. As long as you don't physically or verbally abuse anyone, you have a right to think what you like, but allow others to do the same.Pammi"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live." http://trak.to/skydivechick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #27 June 7, 2001 I'm sorry about your nephew. You clearly have some very powerful issues to deal with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #28 June 7, 2001 QuoteIt was a homosexual male that did that to my nephewFirst of all spectre, it is a terrible tragedy anytime anyone takes their own life, I'm very sorry to hear that. My sympathies.I hate to get overly clinical on such an emotional issue, and I know I'm walking into a minefiles here, but I think it's an important distinction to make. The person who abused your nephew was a homosexual pedophile.The difference is important. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles, just as not all heterosexuals are pedophiles.The are many women who were sexually abused by heterosexual males at a very young age and have been severely traumatized as well -- to the point of being suicidal.So I think Jessica's point is well taken. But you are also right. The fact that it was a homosexual that did the abusing exascerbates the situation because of the way society views homosexuality. So I'm sure the shame that he felt was amplified.I can surely understand the anger and hate that you feel toward the person that abused someone you care about. But I guess my point is that lumping all homosexuals into the "pedophile" category isn't really very fair. Not all heterosexuals are child abusers, and neither are all homosexuals.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #29 June 7, 2001 OK I am going to add my gas to the fire. As the aformentioned WHITE STRAIGHT MIDDLE CLASS MALE, I think that HAving more diversity in skydiving is great. I bet that there are a decent number of Gay men and women in the sport, just not Flaming ones. They are just not hitting on you or having a lot of PDA so we don't know. Spectre I am heart broken to hear about you nephew taking his life so young. However, I have to say that you are blaming the wrong group. Pediphiles are sick people who pray on children and the vast majority are "Straight" men reproducing a crime that was done to them in childhood. Gay men and women are just people who happen to be atracted to people of the same gender, just like I am atracted to agressive women or women with blond hair. Don't lable a group as bad because of one F@#$ed up person. Don't continue the hate and cause pain and suffering for others. Catch and convict the BASTARD who did this terrible thing and put him away so no one else is hurt. Let the rest be.I hope you and your family find some peace.Ready, Set, GOOOOOOOAlbatross Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #30 June 8, 2001 Spectre230. I am truly sorry for the loss of your nephew. Being 21 myself I can barely imagine the life experiences that you have enjoyed but that your nephew cannot. However: judging someone not by his or her merits, but by membership in a given group that has assumed (not universal) characteristics is the essence of discrimination.Judging all gays by the reprehensible actions of one would be the same as a city denying me a job as a bus driver because I'm a skydiver. "He's reckless! He blatantly disregards both his own safety and that of the people around him!!" And this without interviewing me, looking at my driving record, or even watching me drive an empty bus. And especially without knowing anything more about skydiving.Blues, squares,PTiger*insert witty sig here* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #31 June 8, 2001 I am all for equality and freedom from oppression for one's lifestyle/sexual preferences, and all that jazz. I can even tolerate gay PDA. But when/if I, an obviously bona fide hetero, am approached by a gay guy who wants nothing more than to drop his dick in my bum, I tend to get a little offended and introverted. Have fun, be merry, do whatever floats your boat, just don't go off imposing your opinions upon others. My reality is exactly that, MINE, and I'm sure it differs greatly from most in here. The idea of all gays being molestors is such bullshit. In fact, I would be willing to bet that the majority of molestation cases originate from sickos who are straight. Straight or gay, it is an apalling crime. At any rate, the reason I'm responding to this debate is in reference to the middle-class/ affluent lifestyle that skydivers are purported to lead. I myself am a college student who throws every nickle I EARN into flight training and skydiving. I do own my own rig, but I also will be paying for it for the next two years.......aren't student loans great? What I'm trying to say is that I, along with most people that I jump with aren't rich, just extremely dedicated to a sport they love with such a passion that most whuffos can't fathom. Isn't that what it's really all about anyway......love for the sport, not politics. I get enought of that during the week at work and from the tube; frankly, it's the last thing on my mind when at the dz. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HotLoad 0 #32 June 8, 2001 OOPSforgot to login for those of you who want to blast me for the last post Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what42 0 #33 June 8, 2001 I am sorry about your nephew. But, straight men do this all the time to little girls. It is not homosexuals who are to blame but the sick perverts that are pedophiliacs. Whether homo or hetero blame the individual. Groups don't commit actions, people do.Wesley--I want to fly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
what42 0 #34 June 8, 2001 QuoteBut when/if I, an obviously bona fide hetero, am approached by a gay guy who wants nothing more than to drop his dick in my bum, I tend to get a little offended and introverted. Do you ask every woman you are attracted too if they are heterosexual before you hit on them? I doubt it. A simple misunderstanding shouldn't be a cause of resentment. The man/men who hit on you probably didn't know you weren't gay. Unless you wear a sign I doubt it's obvious either way.Wesley--I want to fly! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #35 June 8, 2001 Sorry to bring this back to the topic but my DZ (OSC) isn't that WASPy. It's more like the battle of the alamo when it comes to the staff:Pilot - MexicanInstructor - MexicanJM (me) - MexicanDZO - So white he glows.We really need to become Rodriguez Brothers...Kris(The Latino's are now here to keep The Man down.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #36 June 8, 2001 Used to be the word "Gay" meant Happy.I think it changed. So answer me this. How can anybody be happy with a big dick stuck up their butt? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #37 June 8, 2001 It might just be me, but I just don't understand all the problems some people have with with gay man/women. Just let everyone be him/herself, and just learn to except everyone for who he/she is....it's not important enough to make such a big deal out of it.. One of our tandemmasters/instructors is gay, and everyone on our club knows, and nobody makes a big deal out of it. But I gues not all the people in the US (and other countries) are as tolerant and easy as the Dutch folks...:) Greetz, JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #38 June 8, 2001 Ok Ben, I hope this has become non-boring enough for ya ....Goodness me, had no idea such a topic could be so controversial!Surely it is the case that MOST 'extreme' (what an over-used word!) sports are male-dominated? Personally, I find this to be something of a plus, heh heh....but anyway, I digress...The mostly male environment nearly always creates a pack-mentality or 'culture' which tends to abhor male homosexuality and ...er...drool over female homosexuality.I think it's just the way skydiving is. It's very similar in large, male-dominated corporates. I don't mind myself, one of the over-riding elements of skydiving culture, I reckon, is piss-taking. My DZ is somewhere where people call a spade, a spade...if you know what I mean. Most skydivers I've met have been kind, welcoming, accepting, non-prejudiced...pretty cool. Taking the piss out of anything that's different isn't the same as creating a Nazi regime of hatred! I agree that there are sometimes insidious knock-on effects of allowing sexist, racism, ginger-ism or whatever to remain an intrinsic part of our daily language and behaviour; but I like to think the piss-taking/ mock homophobia I occasionally see at the DZ is ironic and kind of post-modern...Hmmm - perhaps that's taking it a bit far! By the way, in response to MONK:>On any given day there will be French, Japanese, Germans and Norwegians (sp) and Belgians etc.... <...I don't mean to be a pedant, but you are confusing race and nationality...these nationalities are actually predominanatly white; I am talking about race, not language.Anyway, you happy campers, glad I got the blood pumping for some of you (what else is there to do when one can't skydive and is stuck in an office, eh?)REMI: PLEASE don't tell anyone about that! People think I'm a nice, sweet young thang!Welcome to the weekend everyone, whether you be gay, straight, whuffo, woofter, black, green, alien or freeflyer!Emma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #39 June 8, 2001 >>>REMI: PLEASE don't tell anyone about that! People think I'm a nice, sweet young thang!Moi????? Your secret identidy is safe... besides, we dont really go to Hinton any more... We've found there's more jumping to our liking to be had at Langar (multi-point double-digit-ways).. just our view of it...Remi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #40 June 8, 2001 Wow...multi-point double-digit ways.....I'd be happy with a 2 point 4-way at the moment.....man...Do you know Skreamer then? We met some blokes from Langar when we were at Empuria at Xmas...some cool -looking 8-way team...at least, I think it was Langar...Anyways, 'slong as you're still having fun!Em Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #41 June 8, 2001 I'm pretty sure I've met skreamer... South African dude, right?We'll be back at Hinton on day.. still have a couple of jump tickets in the ole log book! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #42 June 8, 2001 Quotethere's more jumping to our liking to be had at LangarRemi, next time you are at Langar, your next beer is on me! (actually the way I manage to wind some people up, that is often the case! )Can you people believe that I am sitting at home on the first day of my 'weekend'? I have to save for my trip to Florida, but this totally sucks - I just know if I drive up to Langar, apart from the petrol, I will drink out all my money again! (I am so weak)Emma, how far is Hinton from London, and will the rest of your 4-way team be there tonight? /sPS and people do discriminate against me, not because I am African, but some bollocks about me being loud and obnoxious... hmpfff, whatever... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #43 June 8, 2001 SKREAMER: Hinton is close to London, maybe an hour or so depending on a/ where you're starting from and b/ if you speed . It's off Junction 10 on the M40, if that's any help - I chose to start jumping there cos I live in Lonodn...so it's pretty close.I'll be there from tomorrow but there's bound to be jumping/ boozin' etc this afternoon and evening if you wend your way up there! One day I hope to encounter this loud and onnoxious South Efrican !Emma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #44 June 8, 2001 Hi Emma3 points and a £60 fine later, I won't be speeding on the M1 anymore (stupid cameras on the M1!!!). Just checked and Hinton and Langar look rained out. Langar might be a bit further from London, but the lift capacity is awesome and I can get coaching from Milko for only the price of his jump ticket (£14 on a Friday). You know, that is something I really don't get - people in the UK going to the states and paying shedloads for SDU coach jumps, when they can get AWESOME RW coaching (with video) from world record holder skydivers right here for only the price of their slot. Oh well, bigger and better I suppose.../sPS really enjoyed that little whinge, must be assimilating, time for a(nother) cup of tea....PPS congratulations to Tony Blah blah blah, more of the usual crap for another 4 years (still better than the tories winning, which is quite sad really) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #45 June 8, 2001 Hey Skreamer,Not wanting to start a 'My DZ's better than yours' type of war, but we have a great new TurboLet 410 which seats 17 (yes, actual SEATS! It rocks!)... We also have lots of WARP coaches here who never charge for anything but their own slot, and will do you a video free as a matter of course. We do have a few world record holders of our own too.......and a jacuzzi, hot air balloon, 14,000 foot high dome to keep out the rain and.....Well ok, everything except the last bit.I know what you mean about going to the States...the weather is probably better there though, and they are pretty up-to-date on techniques and stuff...not that i've been but that's what they say.Hope the sun shines wherever you are anyway!Em Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #46 June 8, 2001 Quoteyes, actual SEATS! It rocks!Are these the famous vibrating seats? Do you pay extra for those or do ALL the seats tickle your fancy? /s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emma 0 #47 June 8, 2001 I think they all do the job but I favour the ones nearer the front as i've always found they take my mind off the FEAR!!!!!em Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #48 June 8, 2001 QuoteNot wanting to start a 'My DZ's better than yours' type of war, but we have a great new TurboLet 410 which seats 17 (yes, actual SEATS! It rocks!)... We also have lots of WARP coaches here who never charge for anything but their own slot, and will do you a video free as a matter of course. We do have a few world record holders of our own too.......and a jacuzzi, hot air balloon, 14,000 foot high dome to keep out the rain and.....Ah, bite me! We have a C-182, so there! lolPammi"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live." http://trak.to/skydivechick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #49 June 8, 2001 Quote14,000 foot high dome to keep out the rain Hmmmm, how big is that abortion of a tourist attraction dome in London again??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Pammi 0 #50 June 8, 2001 QuoteSorry to bring this back to the topic but my DZ (OSC) isn't that WASPy. It's more like the battle of the alamo when it comes to the staff:Pilot - MexicanInstructor - MexicanJM (me) - MexicanDZO - So white he glows.ROFL! That's funny! Ya know, I can't believe I didn't think about that when I posted earlier! *shrug* I just don't notice I guess...we're all the shit! The only thing that pisses me off is that you don't have to pay for your tan dammit! hehe (as my 1/2 Mexican daughter enjoys rubbing in my face frequently! )Where is Cyberskydive with all his 'feel the love' stuff?? :)Pammi"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live." http://trak.to/skydivechick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Pammi 0 #50 June 8, 2001 QuoteSorry to bring this back to the topic but my DZ (OSC) isn't that WASPy. It's more like the battle of the alamo when it comes to the staff:Pilot - MexicanInstructor - MexicanJM (me) - MexicanDZO - So white he glows.ROFL! That's funny! Ya know, I can't believe I didn't think about that when I posted earlier! *shrug* I just don't notice I guess...we're all the shit! The only thing that pisses me off is that you don't have to pay for your tan dammit! hehe (as my 1/2 Mexican daughter enjoys rubbing in my face frequently! )Where is Cyberskydive with all his 'feel the love' stuff?? :)Pammi"The question is not whether we will die, but how we will live." http://trak.to/skydivechick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
