Reinforcement material on type 17 risers

[Deimian 43]

I've been taking a closer look to my risers. I was expecting to see an extra piece of type 17 webbing in the grommet area, as reinforcement, but I couldn't see anything. The only extra piece of webbing that I see looks like binding tape, and goes as well around the medium ring.

I have a couple of questions regarding that:

-Is this binding tape the reinforcement? I was under the impression that binding tape is not designed for bearing large loads.
-If not: would it be that the reinforcement is not visible (i.e.: pushed into the inside part of the risers and not visible in the edge)?
-If not: what am I supposed to do? Can this be considered a defect in the manufacturing process?

I'll be jumping a Sabre 1 next season, so the stress on the risers might be higher than before (I'm currently jumping a Sabre 2, with soft openings), and I'm wondering if this can be an issue, particularly given that I use an RSL with a MARD. So far, the risers have a little bit under 170 jumps, without any issue.

[skez 0]

Your neck will most likely snap before the risers do...and if your worried about it get reverse risers they have no grommet hole..
nah I dont no I thought they had a bit of reinforcement

FTMC

[Deimian 43]

skez

Your neck will most likely snap before the risers do...and if your worried about it get reverse risers they have no grommet hole..
nah I dont no I thought they had a bit of reinforcement

Reverse risers have a higher cutaway force, so no, I won't get them, neither I'll get type 8 risers, in case somebody suggest it.

I am just asking about how to check for reinforcement on type 17 risers, and if the lack of it can be considered a defect.

[mark 107]

Deimian

Is this binding tape the reinforcement?

Yes.

Mark

[Quagmirian 40]

The binding tape is the reinforcement. Older risers have 2 layers, newer ones have 3, which prevents a more obscure failure mode. It may not look like much, but type 3 tape has a strength of 525lbs, so even 2 layers adds about 700lbs of strength to the riser.

[Deimian 43]

Quagmirian

The binding tape is the reinforcement. Older risers have 2 layers, newer ones have 3, which prevents a more obscure failure mode. It may not look like much, but type 3 tape has a strength of 525lbs, so even 2 layers adds about 700lbs of strength to the riser.

Cristal clear now, thank you!

[skez 0]

Wasnt being serious.....but how does reverse risers have a higher cutaway force? Thought they would be the same...

FTMC

[gowlerk 2,275]

skez

Wasnt being serious.....but how does reverse risers have a higher cutaway force? Thought they would be the same...

When the loop goes around the smallest ring then through the grommet to the other side of the riser, the loop and ring become a simple pulley system with a 2:1 mechanical advantage. This in theory reduces the force on the cable by half, therefore giving an easier cutaway. Reverse risers eliminate this pulley system.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Quagmirian 40]

The white retaining loop doesn't form such an efficient pulley as on the normal 3 ring, so release force goes up as much as 50% I think. Let me see if I can find the UPT study...

Edit: gowlerk said it better.

[Deimian 43]

skez

Wasnt being serious.....but how does reverse risers have a higher cutaway force? Thought they would be the same...

There was an article in dz.com about that. This is the website: http://www.dropzone.com/gear/articles/Reversedvs.Non-ReversedR.shtml

For some reason it doesn't work right now, but you can check out google's cache:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mGI5z89aa64J:www.dropzone.com/gear/articles/Reversedvs.Non-ReversedR.shtml+&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&lr=lang_de%7Clang_en%7Clang_es

[Deimian 43]

Quagmirian

The white retaining loop doesn't form such an efficient pulley as on the normal 3 ring, so release force goes up as much as 50% I think. Let me see if I can find the UPT study...

Edit: gowlerk said it better.

It can be way higher than 50%, see my post above.

[Beatnik 2]

Jumpshack did a study on type 17 risers that might be an interesting read considering for some.

http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=T17STUDY&SortBy=DATE_D

[skez 0]

So from what I could figure out some reverse riser designs are alot better then others...I dont use reverse risers but I have a set of atom risers (parachutes de france) I use for ground launching...does anyone know if these type are anygood? There must be alot of them out there as the atoms etc..use them

FTMC

[skydiverek 63]

skez

So from what I could figure out some reverse riser designs are alot better then others...I dont use reverse risers but I have a set of atom risers (parachutes de france) I use for ground launching...does anyone know if these type are anygood? There must be alot of them out there as the atoms etc..use them

From 3-ring inventor Bill Booth:

"Reversed risers are 3 ring risers where the riser rings face the jumpers body, instead of facing away as they do on normal risers.

In a misguided attempt to make type 17 (mini) 3 ring risers stronger, the French eliminated the grommet that passes through the riser, thinking this was a weak point. They then put the "0" grommet for the closing loop to go through on a floppy 1" tab. Then, so that the 3-ring housings wouldn't have to come around to the front, flipped the riser over so that the riser rings faced the jumper's shoulders

There are three problems with this approach. 1. Risers don't break at the grommet. They break where they go around the harness ring. 2. The closing loop on reversed risers does not make the 180 degree direction change it does on properly built risers, so the release force is doubled, and the "suck through" or "jamming" force is cut in half. 3. For a 3 rings to release, they must flip through each other. Since a bag lock might not stand you up enough to pull the risers away from your body, reversed risers might not release in that situation, because your body blocks the flip through motion.

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I don't know about you, but I want my 3-rings to work EVERY time, in ANY malfunction situation. "Most of the time" just doesn't cut it. Reversed risers, soft housings, and all other "improvements" to the 3-ring lower reliability. Emergency systems are simply no place to cut corners. I cry every time I see a poorly made 3-ring, but there is nothing I can do about it, but tell you again, "There is one best way to make a 3-ring release system, and it doesn't cost a dime more to do it right. The plans are available from the Relative Workshop." How much is your life worth?

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On reversed (Integrity) risers...The scariest stories I've heard about them happen in two canopy out situations. Often, the main risers are held back across the shoulders, preventing the unfortunate jumper from cutting the main away in a "personal downplane" situation.

Reversed risers offer no advantages, have lower mechanical advantage, have no published construction or inspection specifications (so you can't tell if they are going to work in a high "G" situation), and can kill you in the above situation (and others). They should be replaced, and you should get very mad at anyone who sold them to you. The same is true for most "soft housing" 3-ring release systems.