Flying on Back & Crazy Tumble

[jfields 0]

0:3:1 for a day trip to the DZ. The event prompting the case owed is what I have questions about.
Unlike another time when I tried to get stable on my back, it worked this time. The first time, I flipped back over onto my belly after about 3 seconds of instability. This time, I watched the plane fly away clearly for the "pre-second" time. I was kind of in an inverted arch. My "badminton birdie" shape was butt down, with legs up about even with my head, and my arms mostly straight out over my head. Imagine a big letter V, with my butt at the point.
All was fine. Then I tried it again on another jump. I held it pretty reasonable for about 5 seconds, then turned over. Then I tried it again, and everything totally fell apart. I ended up spinning like mad. At first it was a fast flat spin, but then I lost it and tumbled through about 3000 feet in some insane 3-axis gyroscope thing. I finally stabilized belly-to-earth by doing a really hard, sustained arch. By my pitch-out altitude, I was fine and deployment was normal.
My first question is “What did I do wrong to induce the spin”? What comes to my mind is that I got my legs uneven. I’d think that would start a spin. Next, what could I have done besides just arching to get out of that crazy tumble I ended up doing? It worked, but I burned a whole lot of altitude recovering. On this jump, I was second person out of the plane. I gave a 4-5 second delay before exiting. I talked on the ground to the person that exited before me. Evidently, I fell like a stone, because when I deployed at 4000 feet, he was at least 1000 feet above me still in freefall.
I know that sit-flying is substantially faster than belly-flying, but I didn’t think I was going that fast, because I wasn’t really in a sit. Everything I’ve seen shows people in a sit much more upright than I was. My legs were straight and my torso and arms were straight, so I thought I’d have a pretty normal descent rate during the part of the dive where I was relatively stable. Was it usual that my fall rate was so high?
From what I was doing, what would be the progression to a traditional sit-flying position? Arms more in back of me, instead of above my head, with legs bent?
Anyway, I’d love to hear other people’s interpretation of what the heck was going on during that jump. It was definitely interesting.
Justin
"If it can't kill you, it isn't worth doing."

[Dutchboy 0]

You probably had some sort of asymetry with your legs or arms.
Back flying is something that you need to learn if you like to sitfly with other people and you find yourself too low.
Instead of rolling between belly and back you might try doing a half flip. I think it would tend to put you in more of a symetrical position.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[skymedic 0]

Loose legs will do it every time...
Marc

[DiverDave 0]

Justin,
You were really burning because back flying is quite a bit faster than belly... less surface area out... you can fly slow on your back, but it takes a lot more work than on your belly.
You were almost certainly sticking a leg or arm out a bit more on one side, that'll cause a spin. Next time try bringing your arms and legs all the way in (out of the wind) and then pushing them symmetrically back out. When you are comfortable backflying an entire skydive, you are a long way toward safe freeflying with others.
To get to a sit from your back, stick your arms straight out to your sides at about shoulder level... Then pull your feet in to your butt (cannonball style), and you'll rotate upright... Then you can push your feet _down_ below your knees, and you'll be sitting. If you can see your feet, you're probably reclined on your back with your legs in front of you backsliding like hell. Remember this position for later, tho, its the beginning of a back-track, and a great way to drive back if you end up on the outskirts of a freefly jump! :)
The most important thing is that when things fall apart, resist the urge to pop to your belly... When it feels like its about to go unstable, try the cannonball-with-arms-out (Pat Works calls this the 'vRW Stable' position). Also, use your backfly to recover and try again.
Cheers... Dave

[jfields 0]

Thanks for the back-flying & sit-flying advice, everyone. You all gave me lots of info I didn't know. I have a whole lot of work to do on RW and bellyflying, but it would be nice to take a break now and then and do something totally different and fun on solo jumps. Back & sit-flying seem to be likely candidates.
It will be awhile before I do any sitflying or freeflying with other people, but it should be fun to work on those skills.
Thanks again!
Justin
"If it can't kill you, it isn't worth doing."