SkyDekker 1,465 #1 August 13, 2001 There seem to be many newbie questions being asked lately, so here is my .02 worth.I am currently in a SL progression and was wondering what people on DZ.com think is the better training program. I have been really wondering lately if I should switch to AFF and whether AFF will teach me better freefalling skills. Or should I just stick with SL/AID?I have 4 jumps under SL and couldn't jump this weekend. Hurt my fingers and hand in a reserve ride "crash" landing a week ago Justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #2 August 13, 2001 Justin,do a quick search on that.. there has been a few threads on the subject in the last couple of months..... I think it was in the Safety/Training forum....Remi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #3 August 13, 2001 Hey man.....I did AFF. From what I've heard, if you KNOW you want to become a skydiver, AFF is the way to go. For one, you get practice for freefall in every jump. You can't substitute for experience. You can't teach on the ground in one week what you can learn in one minute of freefall. AFF is more expensive, but it gets your ass up in the air....quick. I think it is a great course.There are the downsides too (besides price). It is VERY intense. Every jump requires you to do something, if not a lot. If you think you can handle the pressure (I'm sure you can), than AFF would be for you. Good luck deciding!!--------------Check out our all-new website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #4 August 13, 2001 AFF will give you good free fall skills.SL will get you used to jumping out at any altitude, spoting, more canopy work, and give you more jumps under the eye of an instructor for your money.If you're a serious about skydiving both systems will get you your A license just fine. And then you can really work on building your skills up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larry 0 #5 August 13, 2001 I agree with mountainman. In my humble opinion AFF is the way to go. I went through AFF and will soon have an A license. The program is more intense with a little more performance pressure. The costs can also be high, but the benefits are worth it. You are freefalling from day one and can complete the course in a short time (money and weather permitting). I think you will have much better freefall skills in a shorter time with AFF. Worry about hop -n- pops later.You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice. – unknown Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZBone 0 #6 August 13, 2001 Quote AFF will give you good free fall skills.SL will get you used to jumping out at any altitude, spoting, more canopy work, and give you more jumps under the eye of an instructor for your money.This is the best summation of this frequently-asked-question I have seen.Keep in mind that almost all of the finest skydivers in the world have gone through one or the other of these. A few hundred jumps from now, it won't matter which you did, imho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #7 August 13, 2001 QuoteKeep in mind that almost all of the finest skydivers in the world have gone through one or the other of these. A few hundred jumps from now, it won't matter which you did, imho.Never thought of it that way, but makes lots of sense. I think I will stick to SL, get selfsupervised, my A license and really start learning Justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenW 0 #8 August 13, 2001 Skydekker,Don't let the AFF guys put you off S/L. It CAN be done in a short period, just like AFF. I took 8 days to get from 1st jump to Cat8 and A license (UK) - If you get good weather, take a week off and get to the DZ. Cost me a whole hoot less doing it the S/L route (about 1/2 price....).Enjoy it!B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #9 August 13, 2001 QuoteDon't let the AFF guys put you off S/LI dont want to take you off of S/L, but I was wanting a whole minute of freefall. I think you can learn more freefall maneuvers in AFF. When you get done with 20 jumps, you'll have much more freefall experience.Just my .02.....--------------Check out our all-new website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 August 13, 2001 I hate to agrue about AFF or SL since I went through a program like Skydivce Chicago's AFP. I did'nt get as many jumps as they do but same idea.With the most "dangerous" part of the skydive the last 100-300 feet under canopy would you rather be turned loose with 7-8 AFF jumps or 15-18 SL jumps? Another anology would be would you feel safe if before you got your drivers licence you only had driven a few times (7-8) or would you rather have been able to have got more experience(15-18)? Freefalling skills can be worked on with other jumpers... Canopy skills are hard to teach with out using a radio system. How cool is it to have to go BACK on radio after you "graduate" because of lack of experience?Ideally if you could find a place that has a canopy school that is near by use it if you choose SL/IAD, AFF, or APF. Just my $00.02 Do I HAVE to do another raft dive??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenW 0 #11 August 13, 2001 MM,You have a very short sighted view there... So, here I am with almost 200 jumps, the guys who were doing AFF while I was doing static line got 9 freefall jumps in while I was on the rope. That makes about 10 - 14 mins more when you take into account building up freefall time with increasing length delays.Compared to them I have about the same amount of freefall time now, within a minute or two. The difference is really very minimal. You'll see a bigger difference in freefall time if you compare FF and RW jumpers (10-20 seconds less per jump!).Do you really think that a couple of minutes at the start of your skydiving career is going to make a difference???I agree with DZBone on this one - If someone is happy on static line, they aren't going to be particularly disadvantaged (unless they have a problem where in-air instruction will help).B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #12 August 13, 2001 I'd stick with SL. I did AFF and although the training was adequate, it lacked in canopy control. Yes, I had more FF time, but even with that, by the time I was done AFF, and even now, I'm capable of falling relaxed and stable, doing turns, flips, and tracking, but not much else. It doesn't train you for RW, etc. You have to do get extra coaching, either professional or from friends for that stuff anyway. As much training as you can get under canopy the better.Plus, I was scared to death to do my hop n pop because they actually wanted me to jump out lower than where I was used to pulling. I pull lower then that now, but on AFF I was pulling at 5500.Don't worry, you'll get plenty of FF time when you're done training and trying to get your A license.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RemiAndKaren 0 #13 August 14, 2001 Ben, MM, I think you are both wrong.The best way to learn is to be thrown in to the deep end as fast as possible....My recommendation: go the the local airport and find a Pilot who wants to log in lots of time (preferably one with limited experience so you can tell him" do it this way.. Of course.. thats how every good Skydiving pilot does it").Find a backyard long enough to do nice swoops in (doesnt need to be very wide as all is required is the width of your canopy - read next point)Then go online, find some used gear (preferably something small - sub 100 sq foot works best read previous point - as to not be unconfortable in the plane and not having to downsize to a 46 sq foot for at least a couple dozen jumps)practice pulling low (we all do at boogies) and master the art of "deployment while tumblimg over and over and over" that will be really usefull when you decide to get into FF... alternatively, have the pilot throw watermelons at you after exit to simulate RW big way divers overswooping....This training method will ensure that if you succeed, you will, not only have lots of usefull skills, but also the required luck to survice anything....RemiPS: Run any advice past you JM's... especially mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenW 0 #14 August 14, 2001 Remi,Is this the way you were taught how to skydive? Hmm, things are starting to make a LOT more sense... B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RemiAndKaren 0 #15 August 14, 2001 hehehe...did you get any jumps in last weekend Ben? Karen and I did the un-thinkable: a quiet weekend at home sleeping in.... the weekend didnt look too good on Saturday AM. and it looked like a good decision...Sure hope to get in the air next week en now.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkM 0 #16 August 14, 2001 QuoteI dont want to take you off of S/L, but I was wanting a whole minute of freefall. I think you can learn more freefall maneuvers in AFF. When you get done with 20 jumps, you'll have much more freefall experience.Yeah, but freefall experience isn't the only part of training.As long as you can:1> Exit the plane safely.2> Deploy at altitude.3> Deploy stable.4> Land safely.You can skydive. AFF sort of does it all at once where SL drills it into you one painful step at a time.Personally if I want to work on my freefall skills I'll hit a wind tunnel. But then I'm only 3 hours from Orlando, not everyone has access to one(unfortunately). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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BenW 0 #11 August 13, 2001 MM,You have a very short sighted view there... So, here I am with almost 200 jumps, the guys who were doing AFF while I was doing static line got 9 freefall jumps in while I was on the rope. That makes about 10 - 14 mins more when you take into account building up freefall time with increasing length delays.Compared to them I have about the same amount of freefall time now, within a minute or two. The difference is really very minimal. You'll see a bigger difference in freefall time if you compare FF and RW jumpers (10-20 seconds less per jump!).Do you really think that a couple of minutes at the start of your skydiving career is going to make a difference???I agree with DZBone on this one - If someone is happy on static line, they aren't going to be particularly disadvantaged (unless they have a problem where in-air instruction will help).B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 August 13, 2001 I'd stick with SL. I did AFF and although the training was adequate, it lacked in canopy control. Yes, I had more FF time, but even with that, by the time I was done AFF, and even now, I'm capable of falling relaxed and stable, doing turns, flips, and tracking, but not much else. It doesn't train you for RW, etc. You have to do get extra coaching, either professional or from friends for that stuff anyway. As much training as you can get under canopy the better.Plus, I was scared to death to do my hop n pop because they actually wanted me to jump out lower than where I was used to pulling. I pull lower then that now, but on AFF I was pulling at 5500.Don't worry, you'll get plenty of FF time when you're done training and trying to get your A license.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #13 August 14, 2001 Ben, MM, I think you are both wrong.The best way to learn is to be thrown in to the deep end as fast as possible....My recommendation: go the the local airport and find a Pilot who wants to log in lots of time (preferably one with limited experience so you can tell him" do it this way.. Of course.. thats how every good Skydiving pilot does it").Find a backyard long enough to do nice swoops in (doesnt need to be very wide as all is required is the width of your canopy - read next point)Then go online, find some used gear (preferably something small - sub 100 sq foot works best read previous point - as to not be unconfortable in the plane and not having to downsize to a 46 sq foot for at least a couple dozen jumps)practice pulling low (we all do at boogies) and master the art of "deployment while tumblimg over and over and over" that will be really usefull when you decide to get into FF... alternatively, have the pilot throw watermelons at you after exit to simulate RW big way divers overswooping....This training method will ensure that if you succeed, you will, not only have lots of usefull skills, but also the required luck to survice anything....RemiPS: Run any advice past you JM's... especially mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenW 0 #14 August 14, 2001 Remi,Is this the way you were taught how to skydive? Hmm, things are starting to make a LOT more sense... B. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #15 August 14, 2001 hehehe...did you get any jumps in last weekend Ben? Karen and I did the un-thinkable: a quiet weekend at home sleeping in.... the weekend didnt look too good on Saturday AM. and it looked like a good decision...Sure hope to get in the air next week en now.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #16 August 14, 2001 QuoteI dont want to take you off of S/L, but I was wanting a whole minute of freefall. I think you can learn more freefall maneuvers in AFF. When you get done with 20 jumps, you'll have much more freefall experience.Yeah, but freefall experience isn't the only part of training.As long as you can:1> Exit the plane safely.2> Deploy at altitude.3> Deploy stable.4> Land safely.You can skydive. AFF sort of does it all at once where SL drills it into you one painful step at a time.Personally if I want to work on my freefall skills I'll hit a wind tunnel. But then I'm only 3 hours from Orlando, not everyone has access to one(unfortunately). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
