Irritated my JM. Comments please.

[Thumper 0]

I have an opinion question for you. This last weekend I started into actual delayed openings. On my final jump my JM told me to pay attention to my alt. instead of a count and to open at 4k. Then he told me that if I go unstable when I try to pull, try and get stable once and if it fails pull anyway. This was my first *real* FF. So I exit, badly. I get stable/unstable throughout my 1000' fall. I get to about 4k by my alt. and I start to pull. I immediately start tumbling/spinning as I fall. So I pop back into an arch and stay for a second or two and I realize that my situation is not improving. So I pull even though I'm in a bad position, the chute opens and I land on target.
So on my debrief both my JM and the pilot are irritated with me saying that I lost track of my altitude and re-stressing that I'm supposed to 1. pull 2. pull at the right altitude and 3. pull while stable. My JM asked me what happened and I talked through it, I kicked on my exit, got stable, started spinning, stopped it, through to my pull. That didn't seem to help anything.
So am I misinterpretting what I'm being instructed to do or did I just do a poor job of explaining what had happened?
Thanks for your opinions on this, it's been bothering me for days.

[billvon 3,116]

I don't think you're misinterpreting. If you do go unstable at pull time, it's a bad thing. If you pull too low, that's also a bad thing. Having both happen is especially bad - going unstable at pull altitude, trying to arch, staying "for a second or two" then pulling will put you 500 feet lower than your expected opening altitude.
The priorities are always the same - pull, pull at altitude, pull stable. You busted two of them on this dive. You weren't too low, and the parachute deployed OK anyway, so it's not the end of the world, but it's still not something you can expect your JM to be happy about. Take it as a learning experience.
-bill von

[Snowflake 0]

OK.....what altitude did you pull at do you know? I didn't think so, you were involved with other things (not trying to be mean). That would be the point they were trying to make. Let me gove you a scenario. we'll start where you deployed now lets say you went a little lower trying to get stable then on deployment you have a spinning mal and your still falling fast as you go to cut away your cypress fires your reserve right into your mal. You can draw your own conclusion as to what would happen after that. It sounds far fetched but you sure don't wanna spend the rest of your life trying to get stable (I'm sure that your JM had thoughts along these lines).
The most important thing is think about what you did wrong and how your going to correct it and then execute. Try to relax and smile skydiving is FUN
On my level 3 my JM had to pull for me at least you got that far
Oh yea did I say relax that will stop a lot of instability honest
JG

[Thumper 0]

I was under full canopy, placed the ripcord inside my jumpsuit and completed a controllability check before checking my altimeter. I was @3200 feet at that time.

[Michele 1]

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re-stressing that I'm supposed to 1. pull 2. pull at the right altitude and 3. pull while stable.

But did you do that? And they are in order of importance.

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...I start to pull. I immediately start tumbling/spinning as I fall. So I pop back into an arch and stay for a second or two and I realize that my situation is not improving. So I pull even though I'm in a bad position...

Well, it sounds like you pulled while unstable, but started and stopped. It would seem you did not complete it in the time your jm's wanted you to...how many feet did you lose while trying to become stable? If you started to pull at 4K, took a second to realize you were not stable, then two more seconds to try to get stable (a total of 3 seconds), you really weren't pulling until about 3600. Thank god you were in a canopy which opens quickly, and doesn't take a while.
I suppose my point is simply those 400 feet don't matter during the jump. But they'd count a lot if they were at the end of the jump.
I can hear/read you getting a bit defensive. I understand, you had a different thought process and you thought you were doing the right thing. And you may have, and far be it from me to say you didn't.
But - your jm's thought differently. And they're the ones with a gazillion jumps; they get to make the call. They see things that we new jumpers have no way of seeing, let alone understanding.
Don't worry about it anymore. Let it go, learn what you should from it, and go have fun.
ciel bleu-
Michele

[Thumper 0]

The thing that's been getting me is wondering which instruction was the correct one? FF 1000', pull at 4000 regardless, or try to get stable and then pull? I understand that it's the JM's job to train me to jump safely, correct my mistakes and totally jump my ass if needed(didn't happen). But both instructions are mutually exclusive, but were given at the same time. Ideally I would have stayed stable when I pulled and everything would have been textbook. But as I said, this was my 1st and I don't yet have enough skill to stay stable throughout the ff. So if I begin to pull stable at 4k as instructed, tumble and try to regain stability as instructed, I'm going to open late. I kept my head and pulled, but I can't hover at 4k to do so. And I realize that if I ride a bad fall too long, there is going to be some serious problems. But I opened at around the same altitude that I'd been opening at on static. I guess I just feel like I ended up in a no-win situation. I'm not saying that the JM's were being mean and rude and intentionally hurtfull, they're great guys. But if the choices I made were the wrong ones, what would have been right?

[skybytch 273]

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pull at 4000 regardless, or try to get stable and then pull?

Pull when you are supposed to pull, regardless of your stability. A lot of jumpers have gone in trying to get stable. Others had AAD's save them because they were doing the same thing. Yes, in this situation you had plenty of time, because that time (pull altitude) has been built into your planned skydive. You exited the plane lower than 4k on your static line jumps because the use of a static line virtually assures that the main canopy will be deployed... there's no such assurance with a solo freefall student.

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what would have been right?

Continuing to pull when you started to the first time. If it's time to pull, pull. Being stable when you pull is wonderful, but it's not more important than getting a canopy over your head when it's time to get a canopy over your head.
pull and flare,
lisa

[Michele 1]

Hey, Thumper.

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So if I begin to pull stable at 4k as instructed, tumble and try to regain stability as instructed, I'm going to open late. I kept my head and pulled, but I can't hover at 4k to do so.

Being your first time, it's really not an easy thing to remain stable. But you have to pull. Pull. Pull. Skybytch said it: you must get a good canopy over your head when you need it there. Ask your jm's what you need to do to get more stable, and then do it. But always pull at altitude.
I was demoing gear this last weekend, and was in a Spectre for the first time. I kid you not, it took eons for it to open. The Protack said that I was under canopy at 3600, even though I pulled at 4500, when I was supposed to. That was a long time. What if I was pulling at 3k instead? That would mean that I was under canopy at 2100, which is below my decision altitude. When I had my mal, it took about 1200 feet for me to identify the problem, and take the correct action. If I had the same problem, I would be under reserve at 900 feet. And that is a bit scary for me.
You're given an altitude to pull at for a reason. It takes our newbie brains longer to handle a situation, and we are given a safety margin. Until we are really capable of handling ourselves, then we need to follow the instructors' teaching. They are there to keep you safe, and if you ever find yourself in a contradictory position, the air is not the place to figure it out. One of my favorite captions in the "Skydiver's Handbook" (p.127):
"Passing through 2 grand at terminal with nothing out is not the time or place to be paging through this book. Do it now". Curt Curtis.
To me, that means find it out on the ground, not in the air. Talk to your jm's, find out exactly what they want, and then give it to them. And give yourself some fun while you're at it.
ciel bleu-
Michele

[Albatross 0]

Sorry to pile on but the # 1 rule in skydiving is pull at altitude. Right now the most important thing is to pull high enough so that you have time to make a decision and identify a problem. Soon you will be jumping with other people and maybe camera people. That means that everyone is going to do things base on when you said you would pull. If you pull high you could be in someone's air if you pull low well you could be hoping that the reserve gets out before you hit and that would suck. PULL!
Flare Damn it!!!!!
Albatross

[jumpervali 2]

I would like to give you some insight to where your at, and what to try on your next jump. First I would like to say PLEASE filter this advice through your jm or i that your working with. I'm a sl/aff-I so it should be close to what your being taught. I also was a static-line student, so I've been where your at. 1st) kicking on exit is not uncommon. 2nd) Wanting to be stable at pull time can cause a lot of pressure to your pull alt/stress level.
pulling at proper alt. w/stable is very nice :-)
Place an ARCH into your pull count
ARCH, LOOK, REACH, PULL, CHECK, ...........
Even if you think but I'm already arching, put MORE hips into the first word of your count. So even if you have an unusual pull it will aid in you staying stable, or get you off your back when you may have to just pull at proper alt.
now for your pull, this will require many reps. 20 to 30 daily for a week
place a handle on your hip or for a boc locate it on your back, a film can works good, but find something.
the key to a good pull is hips forward, the spine and the shoulders are fixed, like a "T".
the hands should never come forward of the shoulders, and the hand should move as if a string is tied to your wrist, use a string if you need to. Look at a mirror to see if your moving each hand equally
now for your exit, If your jumping a c-182 keep your chin up, arch on exit and try to watch the plane pull away from you until you are off the hill, approx. 3 sec. When you climb out before your release think about your legs, focus on them keep them fixed, let the plane slip from your hands and relax, just keep your chin up and legs fixed. It works.
The most helpless feeling I have as an instructor is putting out a clear and pull and watching them try to fix their body position as they blaze through their harddeck. It's like watching a child run after a ball onto a busy street. They know better but it just happens. You are in no way a child I know, but you are a young skydiver. Please be safe, have fun, and look cool for the camera!
jumpervali

[MarkM 0]

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pull at 4000 regardless, or try to get stable and then pull?

Pull at altitude.
Even on the off chance you get a bad chute from being unstable, odds are it'll slow you down. Which gives you more time to cutaway, get a good reserve above your head and make a safe landing.

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Being your first time, it's really not an easy thing to remain stable.

That's a cop out. If you have a strong solid arch you'll be stable(mostly).
If I'm unstable up in the air it's no one's fault but my own. Whether it's my first time up or my 100th.