CNN: At least 10 jumpers injured

[Michele 1]

"CNN: At least 10 jumpers hospitalized in an accident during a large scale military paratrooper exercise in Germany (~I didn't catch the name of the town - but I think it was in the east~). No immediate word on fatalities. "
Anyone have any information? How are all our fellow jumpers out there? It doesn't say if it was a plane crash, or a problem landing in rough terrain. Just that little blurb.
Hoping all is well, and it's just a few broken toes -
ciel bleu-
Michele
(Off topic btw: #299...)
"What of the dreams that never die? Turn to your left at the end of the sky".
~e e cummings~

[spectre230 0]

[Aviatrr 0]

It seems that everytime the military does a large parachute training drop, there are quite a few injuries.. Nothing to worry about, I'm sure - probably just minor injuries.. With a round canopy, landings can be pretty rough - especially if you don't PLF the landing..
Mike

[MarkM 0]

Yeah, and I'm sure the extra 80+ pounds of gear these guys carry don't help.

[freeflir29 0]

"I'm sure the extra 80+ pounds of gear these guys carry don't help"
Yep, the accepted incapacitation rate is 5-10% on an Airborne op. 80 pounds is a light load. I used to exit "lightly loaded" at about 350-365 lbs. I only weigh 190 in the buff! Of course all my commo gear and batteries makes a lot of weight. I always felt really bad for the Mortar guys jumping 120MM base plates and the Stinger guys. That shit was nuts!
"I've got pieces of corn in my crap bigger than him" -Fat Bastard
Clay

[mountainman 0]

That is INSANE!!! Maybe the govt should invest in some camo colored tandem rigs. That would be pretty sweet. Less injuries and more maneuverability.
I know, but more money too. How much would they save in medical?? Probably not enough to justify it, but I bet the paratroopers would agree with it!--------------
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[freeflir29 0]

"Less injuries and more maneuverability."
No that would equal more injuries. Grunts skyshark each other with round chutes. God forbid you actually give them something that has forward drive! Plus...those rigs are made to get you from point A to point B in the minimum amount of time. From 495 Ft into Panama....about 5 seconds.
"I've got pieces of corn in my crap bigger than him" -Fat Bastard
Clay

[mountainman 0]

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skyshark each other

What is this?? This isn't part of the "dont ask, dont tell" campaign is it??Seriously, what do they do??
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[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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That figures,the way the military runs their jump exercises

Very true, at least with regular Joes. Still, with the enormous volume of jumpers they don't do a bad job of getting people into the mix. Even *special* people have bad days, as we both know.
To the person who made the comment about using cammo tandem rigs: we have plenty of those, but they do not get used in standard-force infiltration. We use them to carry very-heavy loads in a container and to infiltrate specialists who are not jump qualified. Still, you just can't mix rounds with squares in the air, especially at night as you would have people running all over each other. On mass tactical jump exercises in the regular force of almost every airborne-capable country in the world, jumpers use non-steerable parachutes and are instructed not to even pull risers except to avoid collision and right before landing. This allows the wind to carry them to the ground with sufficient dispersion, but to keep them in a fairly orderly line so as to aid in link-up on the ground.
Finally:

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"Soon to be retired and a addict."

Me too, Brother! I am dropping my retirement paperwork at the end of this month.
Chuck

[freeflir29 0]

"skyshark each other"
When doing a Mass tactical infil with conventional Airborne troops you do what is called a "shotgun the doors" exit. This means that you have Static line jumpers exiting BOTH doors (Left and Right) at the same time! Supposedly everyone has one second seperation but this is a rarity in practice. When the green light comes on everybody bum rushes the door. This means once you get under canopy there are other jumpers EVERYWHERE around you. I have seen SOOOOO many injuries due to canopy collisions or jumpers that "steal" others air (when one canopy gets below another the higher one gets in the "burble" kinda like free fall except this can cause injury or death if you are under 100 feet) It's a pretty dangerous way to get to work. Much more so than your average free fall infil.
"I've got pieces of corn in my crap bigger than him" -Fat Bastard
Clay

[chicagoskydiver 0]

That is INSANE!!! Maybe the govt should invest in some camo colored tandem rigs. That would be pretty sweet. Less injuries and more maneuverability.
I know, but more money too. How much would they save in medical?? Probably not enough to justify it, but I bet the paratroopers would agree with it!
The military could never use sport parachutes. They want to get down to the ground as fast as possible. I was in the army, and the military trains for combat. The last thing you want when you're being shot at is to be floating around in the air.
Hackey

[freeflir29 0]

"I was in the army"
Sorry to hear that...LMAO
"I've got pieces of corn in my crap bigger than him" -Fat Bastard
Clay

[riggerrob 643]

Military static-line jumping is so vastly different from civilian skydiving .....
Considering that they expect 40% casualties in battle, a handful of broken legs during a peacetime exercise is insignificant, besides leg injuries allow the medics to practice their trade!
Giving ram-air canopies to those airborne bozos is definietly not the answer!
The answer is round canopies that are reliable enough to be deployed below 500 feet and that descend slow enough with a 300-400 pound suspended weight. Over the last decade, all the major manufacturers have developed ways to improve reliablity on static-line chutes - a far more complex engineering problem than most manufacturers are willing to admit. The gist of the problem is that round canopies open in a snivel-snivel-snap mode. It is very difficult to predict how many seconds a round canopy will snivel. If the jump plane is doing 250 knots on jump run - the avoid anti-aircraft artillery - the opening shock can break necks!
The solution to the "snivel-snivel" problem seems to be to revive a 50-year-old patent called the slider. But sliders for round canopies have to be far more sophisticated than the simple squares of fabric used on ram-air canopies. The first step is to create a spreading force at the mouth of the canopy. Irvin Industries of Canada figured this out during the 1980s. An Irvin engineer named Webb found that if you suspended a pilotchute level with the skirt, it generated sufficient , predictable spreading force to eliminate the "snivel-snivel" phase of opening. The biggest single problem with round canopies is that some fabric often blows under the far side of the skirt and inflates on the wrong side. This confusion produces "line-over: type malfunctions 5-10% of the time. Fortunately, most line-overs clear themselves before the jumper can look up, but line-overs vastly increase maintenance bills, In 24 jumps, I have experienced a total inversion - the mother of all line-overs - on a Canadian Army canopy and a partial line-over on a German Army canopy. Both canopies were so badly damaged that they were scrapped.
The second step in improving openings was to install a slider to reduce the "snap" phase. Yada, yada, yada. Eventually several manufacturers combined the Webb chute with a slider. The end result looks funny, but it solves two problems. For a detailed look, visit Butler Parachute Systems website and check out the BAT Sombrero slider installed on their HX series of high speed canopies. Sliders also help to keep lines organized during the snivel-snivel phase, further reducing the chance of line-over type malfunctions.
The final part of the equation is reducing landing velocity to the point that ankles will survive. A large part of this problem is the extra equipment that every army adds to every airborne soldier every year, so they end up way over the original design weight. The solution to slower landing speeds is more fabric.

[chronistin 0]

Hi,
i found a german article about this here:
http://www.nordbayern.de/nb/fort20.htm
rough translation:

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Grafenwöhr/Washington - 32 us-skydivers were injured during a routine exercise at the military airport of Grafenwoehr (northern bayern). a spokesman of the us-military said on friday that a total of 382 jumpers had jumped from new Hercules Transporters.
He said that one jumper suffered severe head injuries, 31 have been injured lightly.
"The ground was very hard and dry due to a long period without rain", said the spokesman when asked for the cause of the incident. The weather had been normal at the time of the jump, wind speed was not higher than allowed.
The condition of the severely injured jumper is stable, he said. The other 31 have suffered typical jump injuries like broken legs and shoulders. 22 of them have already come back to work, 10 are still in a clinic.
The us-jumpers are stationed in Vicenza (Italy) and have come to Grafenwoehr on late thursday. Grafenwoehr is the biggest US-military operation camp in europe. The area is 21000 Hektar [now please don't ask me how to convert that into anything] the us-army is doing exercises together with the german bundeswehr.

sorry for any mistakes in grammar and spelling. Just thought the info might be interesting to some.
While it doesn't say which canopies have been used, it sounds a lot like round ones to me. Otherwise, the dry and hard ground probably wouldn't have been an issue. although i have seen the military (austrian and tunisian) jumping squares (parafoils, to be precise )...
Greetings from Vienna
Andrea
(looking forward to a few jumps tomorrow, if the weather holds... please... please...!)

*************************************
http://www.wortwerkstatt.at/skydiving

[freeflir29 0]

RiggerRob
The current "normal" jump run is 128 KIAS +/- 5 for the US military. Even at this speed a fast opening can create some pretty good G's. It's usually not a snap though. Just a steady increase until you slow down. In my experience anyway. What do you know about the British S/L chutes that have the weight (or thats what it looked like to me)suspended in the middle. I saw some nut British Paratrooper in Kuwait get out at somewhere around 200-250 ft with one of these rigs.
"I've got pieces of corn in my crap bigger than him" -Fat Bastard
Clay