New or Used Gear

[NathanL100 0]

Hey everyone!!! I've got a quick question for all of you. Should I purchase new or used gear for my first rig? Both will take some saving; I just don't want to be replacing it very soon.
Newly Addicted
Nate-

[lazerq3 0]

Depends on what you want and how much you want to pay. Myself I bought new container, new reserve, and a used main (150 jumps 0n it). The only reason I went new with the two items was because I got a KILLER deal. Plus for me the way I look at it is that I got a pretty good all round use container so as long as I keep it in good condition it should be good for damn near life where as with the main I plan on downsizing in the future so I'm didnt want to spend a lot of $$$ on that. But I did get what I wanted and have NO complaints!! However if you do plan on keeping the container make sure it will fit the size conpies you plan on downsizing to or you'll have to buy a new one of those and reserver to fit. just my .02
jason
A-38658

[DZBone 0]

You are generally better off buying used gear to start with, so you don't have to drop a big load of $$$ right off the bat on something that long-term you may not want to stay with.
If you buy some decent, cheap used gear, you can save up your money (yeah, right), try different stuff, get more experience, form your own biases and opinions, and then get your true love gear in a year or so.
Worked for me, other than that saving money thing. Oh, plus you don't feel so bad keeping the old stuff as a backup, for those unexpected reserve rides, repack misses, etc.
Carl

[Zennie 0]

I bought a used container (Vector III for $650) and used main (Sabre 150 for $700) and a new reserve and Cypres. All told about $3300.
I couldn't find a reserve in the size I needed and almost all used Cypreses you see are about due for a battery change or 4 year service. It was just easier (and more comforting) to go with those things new.
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Blue Skies!
Zennie

[skybytch 273]

Depends on how much you can save and how fast. If you can save $4000 or so, you can get all new stuff and pick exactly what you want in your colors. If you can come up with $3000-ish, you can probably find a freefly safe used rig - zp main and Cypres. If you can only save $2000-ish you'd be lucky to find a freefly safe rig with zp main and Cypres, but you can find perfectly airworthy gear with older zp mains (ie more jumps on them) or all F111 mains and older Cypres units.
The problem with used gear is finding what's right for you at your price. If you are bigger or smaller than average, you'll have a harder time finding used gear to suit you. In any case, it's best to have an open mind about brands and colors when you're looking for used equipment.
Buying a new harness/container and filling it with used canopies isn't a bad plan either. You'll get a harness that fits you well, your colors on the container and you won't "lose" quite as much when it's time to downsize.
pull and flare,
lisa
---
I chose the road less traveled. Now where the hell am I?

[Aviatrr 0]

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Should I purchase new or used gear for my first rig? Both will take some saving; I just don't want to be replacing it very soon.

When I got back into the sport after a few years off, I went ahead and bought new.. There are a couple things to keep in mind, though..
I bought a container that would allow me to downsize when I was ready.. I initially bought a Hornet 190 and Tempo 210, and put 'em in a Talon2 container.. They are both a tight fit, but work.. The container(a Talon2 size T5) is actually sized for a 150main/150 reserve combo.. The Tempo 210 packs about the same as a PD160R, so it fits - but it's kinda tight.. The Hornet 190 packs very small for a 190 - it packs about the same as a Sabre 170, and just a bit larger than a Stilleto 150.. I have downsized in that same container from a Hornet 190, Sabre 170, Spectre 150, finally now to a Crossfire 139.. My container will safely hold a Crossfire 129(maybe even a 119 - haven't ever tried that), and even an Extreme VX99.. A friend of mine borrowed my rig and used his VX99 in it for about 50 jumps.. It was a bit loose, but not so loose it was unsafe.. This container will allow me to downsize quite a bit more, and go to much higher performance mains, and still keep my nice, big reserve.. The moral of the story? Buy a container that will allow you to downsize as much as possible(which may mean it'll be hard to pack that larger canopy in it) over time..
The second thing to think about is the reserve.. Don't go for a small reserve just because that's all that will fit in the container you want.. If that's the case - go with a bigger container.. My current reserve is loaded about 1:1.. My main is about 1.5:1.. I have landed a PD143R at a 1.5 loading, and it scared the shit out of me.. I handled it fine in a nice big landing area on the DZ - but if I had been low with a bad spot, the outcome could've been much different.. I will not go to a small reserve just so that "the container looks better" or "that's all that will fit".. Highly loaded mains are one thing, highly loaded reserves are another..
If you can find all this in a used rig, in good shape, at a decent price - go for it! If not, don't be afraid to buy new.. Just get EXACTLY what you want if you buy new..
Mike

[rainman 0]

Quote

My current reserve is loaded about 1:1.. My main is about 1.5:1..

I'm not trying to criticize you, but I thought that main and reserve should be about the same size (or the same loading), I think it was related to a 'two-squares out' situation. Can somebody enlighten me on this, or should this go to safety&training or gear forums?
Ramon

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[freeflir29 0]

"'two-squares out' situation"
Done that one. I was very lucky that the two flew well together. I just unstowed the brakes on the main (had to fly half brakes to keep the two together) and steered very gently to keep me over the field. Landed without any further incident. Other than being really pissed off that it deployed "on it's own?"
At 48 jumps I bought a Dolphin container(old one with snaps) a PD 190 9 cell main, less than 100 jumps. A 1986 Swift 5 cell reserve, no jumps. No Cypress and RSL equipped. I paid $1000. I couldn't pass it up. I didnt have to wait a month to order anything it just showed up in about a week. All I had to do was get the reserve packed and I was jumping. I have talked with the folks that make the container and I'm sending it back this winter to get all the Free Fly friendly updates put on the container for about $300. I just got a used (never opened) PD176R to replace the death trap reserve I had for $500. So I have spent very little money getting set up which leaves a lot more for jump tickets!
"Don't give a F$#ck if I'm comin or leavin"-Pappa Roach
Clay

[Dutchboy 0]

As others have already said, it depends on what you want. I bought all new gear because I'm bigger than your average skydiver, and my whyffo insisted on it. I did get a new rig with a ZP main, reserve, and CYPRES for about $3200. You don't neccessarilly have to buy somebody else's used stuff to save money. My rig is more freefly friendly than what most freefliers seem to use (Javelin).
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[mountainman 0]

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My rig is more freefly friendly than what most freefliers seem to use (Javelin).

What do you have?? Just curious.
We are planning on buying new gear so that it fits us correctly and so we can get what we want. This stuff should last us awhile (maybe replace the main) so it is a good idea in my mind. It all depends on the $$$ situation, I guess.
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Drop on in...leave a message

[Dutchboy 0]

I have a Dolphin 2000, which has better bridle protection that the Javelins that most seem to fly.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[DZBone 0]

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my whyffo insisted on it

Could you have her give mine a call?

[Dutchboy 0]

I think the biggest reason she insisted on new is that I tried to buy a used rig from a guy in CA. Rigger took one look at it and said I would have surely died had I jumped it. Was definitely not as advertised. I guess some skydivers from that state don't care about others, only getting some money.
The Dutchboy
http://www.geocities.com/ppolstra

[SniperCJ 0]

I cant say it enough - used used used!
I didnt listen and bought new gear. Dont get me wrong, I got a good deal and am happy with it, but I came very close to downsizing myself right out of my container within 100 jumps.
I think you can find some great deals on used gear and by the time you get ready to downsize youll have a MUCH better idea of what you want to buy new. And your second set of gear should last you many many jumps before wanting to downsize again.
Blues
JC

[Zennie 0]

This brings up an interesting question...
Can a rigger modify a container to accept a smaller main?
For example, my vector III (V348) is sized for a 170, but can take a 150. Say I wanted to go to a 135, could a rigger modify it to take that canopy?
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

I'm not trying to criticize you, but I thought that main and reserve should be about the same size (or the same loading), I think it was related to a 'two-squares out' situation. Can somebody enlighten me on this, or should this go to safety&training or gear forums?

You're right - it is recommended that the main and reserve be similar sizes.. Tell me this - do you want to have a reserve loaded at 1.5? Not me.. I've landed one at 1.5 - NOT FUN.. I was lucky I had a large, clear landing area.. What happens when I go down to a 120 main? How about a 105? Sub 100? Do you think it would be safe for me to jump a PD106 reserve, just so that it is a similar size to the main, when I am about 210lbs out the door?
Here's how I see it.. The chance of a reserve ride is much higher than the chance of 2 out.. Chances are I will have many rides on this reserve, and probably never see 2 out.. I don't pull low - so I'm not in CYPRES fire territory.. If I get too low, I'll go straight to the reserve.. If I'm low, and in a bad spot, I don't want a small reserve loaded at 1.5+....I'd much rather have my large reserve loaded at 1.0..
Each person has to make their own decision on this matter - but that's the reasoning behind mine..
Mike

[NathanL100 0]

I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm a light weight. I only weight 150lbs and I have to pig out to keep my weight up b/c of a fast metabolism. So if I'm a skinny mother f#$cker does it make a difference when I go to down size and if so will it affect my container size?
Newly Addicted
Nate-

[Zennie 0]

Well skinny/not skinny really isn't the issue. It's strictly lbs/sq ft of canopy. If you're tall & skinny or short & fat but the same weight it's the same.
Most containers can hold about two canopy sizes before you need to look at another container. So what you need to do is decide what wingloading you're comfortable with. That determines the main size. I would get a container that's designed for that size on the high end. That way when you downsize you'll still be able to use that container.
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Zennie
"I know the pieces fit. 'Cause I watched them fall away..."
--Tool

[wingnut 0]

Quote

Can a rigger modify a container to accept a smaller main?

to answer simply, yes and no! i'm not an expert but i am jumping a racer now that used to hold a pd210 in it. it now has a sabre 150. it doesn't look bad either.9and is so easy to pack!!!) depends on how the container is closed and other stuff, if ya want to do it ask your local rigger. i remeber skybytch had a very good resonse to this a while ago when the question was asked.

"if dreams are like movies, then memories are like films about ghosts"-counting crows

[rainman 0]

Quote

Tell me this - do you want to have a reserve loaded at 1.5? Not me..

OK, I guess I didn't think about it that way, you're right that a 'simple' reserve ride is much more likely than 2 out.
Thanks for clearing this up for me!
Ramon

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[SniperCJ 0]

"This brings up an interesting question...
Can a rigger modify a container to accept a smaller main?"
Zennie,
Yes, my Dolphin fits a 190 and I currently have a Diablo 150 in it. To accomodate this my rigger put a 1/2" foam pad covered in cordura sewn into the bottom of the pack tray as "filler". It is sewn in such a way that no lines can possibly snag under it. The 150 fits great and ive been jumping it like this for probably a year with no problems. I dont think I would try to get it to work for another size smaller, but it works great as is.
Blues
JC

[PhillyKev 0]

If you can get on a demo program with a gear store such as one of the Squares, do that. IMO that's the best of both worlds. I put down a $4000 deposit and get 6 months of free rentals. That allows me to jump different gear and downsize before actually purchasing my own gear. And then all $4000 goes toward the price of my new gear. They have other options as well with less money down but then you pay a monthly fee for the rentals. Either way I think it's a great deal.
Main reasons I want new....I want a harness that fits me perfectly, I want a container that is ultra modern and the safest it can be for all conditions since I don't know where I'll go in the sport. I want a brand spanking new reserve for my own peace of mind. Main canopy, I would consider used. But you can also buy used gear through the demo, but you have to pay an up charge for not buying new. You have to see if it's still worth it. Cypress I would also go with used as long as it's been serviced properly.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin