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mcordell

no bartack at cascades?

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So in theory (no I'm not doing it, it's just an honest question) if someone bought a line set from the manufacturer, could the cascades be done with the no sew fingertrap method? From what I have read, that can be stronger than a bartack and would be less labor intensive. It seems a line set could be done entirely without having to add a bartack by the person installing the lines. Is there a downside to relining this way?
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mcordell

From what I have read, that can be stronger than a bartack



A bartack doesn't add anything to the strength. It just keeps the line fingertraped when there's no load.

Quote

and would be less labor intensive



I don't know anyone who can do 30+ stitchless fingertraps faster than a person hitting the pedal on a bartacker......

I've done this fingertap magic once on a field repair... on my canopy... on a lower st. line. Worked out fine. I don't have experience with this on the cascades.
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Hellis

***From what I have read, that can be stronger than a bartack...



A few years ago I did a test on a spectra 725 (?) line with a E-thread bartack.
The line broke before the bartack.
So I'm not sure what you read is correct.

Interesting and good to know.

I wonder if the no sew finger trap would fail before the line fails. Does the added twist in the line cause abraision when it is put under load?
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Deyan


I don't know anyone who can do 30+ stitchless fingertraps faster than a person hitting the pedal on a bartacker......



Next question is whether it is faster than doing it in a zigzag machine! (Even when doing it with a template to hold and move the line)

I have used no-sew traps for things but sometimes sticking with the industry standard method of bartack (or equivalent zigzag) avoids confusing others!

How would one actually use a no-sew at a cascade specifically, for a pre-made line set??

If the rest of the lines were already complete, one would be trying to pass already fingertrapped ends of lines, often with bartacks in them, through the line itself. One would either have one end (the link end) or two ends (at the canopy end) to feed through the line. That doesn't sound very practical or possible, and is rather different from just passing through a free end or single fingertrap.


As for strength:
1) Jumpshack states that the no-sew is just as strong, for it breaks at the end of the fingertrap anyway (where the inserted line tapers off) -- the normal weak point in fingertrapped line

2) I also can't recall what wear issues there might be or why Jumpshack now isn't apparently using the no-sew on most canopy lines. Anything in old dz.com posts?

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mcordell

******From what I have read, that can be stronger than a bartack...



A few years ago I did a test on a spectra 725 (?) line with a E-thread bartack.
The line broke before the bartack.
So I'm not sure what you read is correct.

Interesting and good to know.

I wonder if the no sew finger trap would fail before the line fails. Does the added twist in the line cause abraision when it is put under load?

.....................................

Not sure if method makes much difference in line durability.
I have replaced hundreds of lower steering lines with bar-tacks with barracks and dozens with Jump-Shack's method.
Both lasted hundreds of jumps and were only replaced when entire line kit wore out.

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Hi Peter,

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How would one actually use a no-sew at a cascade specifically, for a pre-made line set??



You do the top of a line. Then you feed it through the line attachment tape at the canopy. Then you do the other portion. Then you feed it through the line attachment tape. Then you make up the 'lock' where the cascades meet. For the bottom end, you merely pull the eye through instead of some trailing end.

I show how to do this latter effort in the instructions for my DINX no-sew soft links. Take a look there and ( hopefully ) you will see how to do this.

Or call Rob and have him explain it to you. :P

JerryBaumchen

Re:
Quote

I don't know anyone who can do 30+ stitchless fingertraps faster than a person hitting the pedal on a bartacker......



This I agree with, however the great thing about the stitchless method is that you can do while sitting on the couch watching tv. :)

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JerryBaumchen

For the bottom end, you merely pull the eye through instead of some trailing end.



So it sounds like it still works with a pre-built line set. I wasn't sure if one wanted to drag an eye with bartack already in it, through the line itself. Many factory bartacks are admittedly fairly low bulk.

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I have relined my velo 103 twice with the bartackless method and my 96 once with it (made the linesets from scratch 500 lb Vectran/1000 lb for the brake lowers). I did it because the concept of no bartacks interested me and I didn't have immediate access to a bartack machine. As for performance, I don't see a huge difference between factory lineset (bartacked) and scratch (no bar tacks). All that being said I prefer the bar tacks.

My thoughts on it are as follows:

It works fine. Primary problem area is the brake settings. These wear better if bartacked. I probably wouldn't reline a canopy for a customer with this method as I believe it could cause confusion. I think it is a great tool to have for a field line replacement repair (I would use it on a BASE canopy for a few line replacements if in the mountains of Europe with no rigging loft, for example). For production it would suck as measuring is a little more time consuming, as is hooking a fid up twice. I haven't tried it, but I think a softer material like HMA would be a real PITA to do a whole lineset with...

IIRC there was a thread about this in the past and the reason for Jumpshack not using it anymore was time consumption/quality control.

-Harry
"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

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