A SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENTS.

[miked10270 0]

Hi Y'all,
Yeah, I know it's been a while....
I suppose that like everyone I've thought of little else in the last 24 hours other that the terrorist attacks in the US. I read the posts here & I suppose I just want to share thoughts.
Firstly, in common with all the other sane people, I am appalled at what happened and my deepest condolences go out to ALL the victims of this atrocity - the dead, the wounded, their familiies and dependents, and also to the survivors and their families. A LOT of people are going to need help in the coming weeks, months and years. If you can, then be there. One practical way to help RIGHT NOW would be to stop skydiving for 6 weeks AND DONATE BLOOD. Remember that skydiving and blood donorship are incompatible so while skydivers usually avoid blood donorship like the plague, this is an exceptional situation and I personally feel that the sacrifice is warranted. Just a thought.
Secondly (and I suppose that this is where it starts to get contentious) I must admit to a reluctant admiration for the state or organisation which perpetrated this act of atrocity. The purpose of Terrorism is to terrorise and in this they have been successful. Can anyone deny that "The Great Satan" is in a state of terror? While I have absolutely no doubt of their fundamental insanity their methodology and professionalism in the execution of these acts cannot be faulted. In a single day The United States has been shaken to it's very core. The commerce, military and transport which is at the very foundation of the American way of life and beliefs has been successfully and spectacularly attacked. Incidentally, I assume that the failed attack (the 'plane which crashed in Pennsylvania) was aimed at The World Trade Centre in Chicago or THe Mall of America At The Twin Cities? Perhaps (posthumous) thanks should be given to the passengers & crew of that aircraft of whom it can be assumed have seized the situation and prevented this tragedy being one of even greater magnitude.
Islamic Fundamentalists genuinely believe that while "The Great Satan", and the "First World" in general is technologically advanced, her people are Idolatrous and cowardly at heart. In short, they do not understand us (as we do not fully understand them. Retribution for this act will, I'm sure be terrible, it remains to be seen whether it will include reciprocity - They have caused "mass destruction" and perhaps the response should be proportionate (by this I mean that you should all sell your shares in glass manufacture 'cos Afghanistan / Syria / Iraq / Iran is going to be turned into glass!!). In the wake of the "Lockerbie Bombing" a strategic strike was ordered against Libya!
Finally, I did see MacAulay getting some Flak for his post. On a purely personal note, when I started at work today I did make a similar comment - something to the effect that had I been either on one of the aircraft or in the building then both me (and my rigs) would have been OK 'cos I can do both BASE and skydive. The only difference was that this was said to a smaller group! a black sense of humor DOES EXIST (!!) and to be honest, it's only a matter of time before the "tasteless" jokes start to appear. For example... "What's the difference between a Mercedes and a Nissan?" (Answer: you wouldn't see a princess DEAD in a Nissan). I bet Prince William and Prince Harry really laughed at that one. Be tolerant of people like MacAulay who are only guilty of a poor sense of timing and circumstance - save your rage for the perpetrators of this act.
Mike D10270.
PS: Something of a poll... When the state or organisation is identified, should the US use "Weapons of Mass Destruction" against Texas.... Whoops, sorry, I meant the state that is responsible. Let's face it, what's the point in Nuking Texas?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Quote

I must admit to a reluctant admiration for the state or organisation which perpetrated this act of atrocity. The purpose of Terrorism is to terrorise and in this they have been successful.

I gotta say I'm a little disturbed by the term "admiration". Being successful at being evil is not admirable. The Nazi's goal was genocide, and they were enormously successful at that (killing 1 in 3 Jews). But I don't think I would use "Nazis" and "admiration" together in the same sentence. (Oops, I just did!)
And as for Weapons of Mass Destruction: If you mean nukes, I would say absolutely not. If it becomes necessary to declare war on a country, we can defeat them without turning to nukes. To use nuclear weapons would be to start a precedent that could lead to far more devastation than we have experienced so far (I'm talking potential apocalypse, here).
Despite the drawn-out difficulties of the Vietnam war, President Lyndon Johnson rightly resisted others who urged him to go ahead and use nuclear weapons. Even though it meant that the USA had to pull out of the war unsuccessfully, it was worth it to resist the urge to use nuclear weapons. We of all people must not start the precedent that nuclear weapons are acceptable, especially since the USA, together with its allies, can easily kick anybody's butt without turning to such desperate measures.
Speed Racer
"Come up to my lab,
And see what's on the slab!"

[miked10270 0]

Hi Speedy,
As I said, I think the perpetrators of these acts are fundamentally wrong and insane... But regardless of this, have they achieved their objective...? YES!!! Have they done it effectively...? YES!!! In short, They have done what they set out to do VERY effectively? (OK - just as the Germans did in 1934 - 1945, perhaps even more so). Within this constraint they have carried out a VERY efficient operation and their planning & execution is (like it or not) admirable for it's effectiveness and efficiency.
As to the "appropriate" response: It has been a cornerstone of American police for decades that "Mass destruction WILL be met with mass destruction"!! Remember the days of the cold war and "Mutually Assured Destruction" (appropriately "MAD")? I am personally (presently) thinking that the biblical phrase "An eye for an eye" (OK - it's not strictly biblical) is going to be popular ("Vox populei - vox Dei"), and a public and spectacular response will be demanded. For years, America has sought to bring Osman Bin Laden to (American) justice without success. Rewards amounting to a "Kings Ransom" have been offered without success. Will the current Federal Administration decide to "use the stick" now as well as the "carrot" previously offered? Would the destruction of (hypothetically) Kabul be seen as a way of both satiating the understandable american demand for retribution AND a way of pressurising the delivery of Bin Laden to Western justice?
It is a fudamental belief of Fundamentalists that their adversaries are evil and lack moral courage. As I said, in the case of Islamic Fundamentalists they absolutely believe that America WILL NOT strike back against them (& lets face it, you cannot strike back at the actual perpetrators... They were at the front of the 'planes and are already dead) so they can strike at America with impunity. In short, what WE view as a "surgical strike" is viewed by them as a weakness.
Mike D10270.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I misunderstood. When you said "weapons of mass destruction" I thought you meant nukes, but evidently you mean just any widescale military strike. Also I thought you were asking "What should the US do" rather than "What will the US most likely do?"
As for what should we do, well,....suppose we build this giant wooden rabbit........
Speed Racer
"Come up to my lab,
And see what's on the slab!"

[pyke 0]

now what?....well, we wait until nightfall and jump out, thus taking the castle by suprise.....
P.S. hey...what is with this giving blood/skydiving thing?? Can you not skydive up to 6 weeks after giving blood?
Kahurangi e Mahearangi,
Pyke
NZPF A - 2584
USPA C- 31879

[PhreeZone 20]

Pyke.... I'm going to start a thread for just that topic.....
Flying on your belly is great..... if thats all you can do!