Bombing Afghanistan back into the Stone Age

[FallingMarc 0]

Ok might as well try...
a)OBL
b)Clay
c)Clay
d)Clay
e)Clay
f)OBL
g)OBL
on just a quick glance-over...
Plus I always thought the UK was socialist. Socialism and Communism are two different things...
Marc

[freeflir29 0]

"Define 'socialist'?"
These definitions are cut and pasted from the Merriam Webster's site.
Main Entry: so·cial·ist
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh(&-)list
Function: noun
Date: 1827
1 : one who advocates or practices socialism
2 capitalized : a member of a party or political group advocating socialism
Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: 'sO-sh&-"li-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Of course, most western countries have at least a little socialism. We don't call the government Uncle Sugar for nothing. The UK happens to have some pretty heavy socialism as most of the major industry is owned by the
government. Thats why taxes in the UK are so heavy. I hate socialism, communism, and any other ism that put's it's hands in my wallet. I guess some socialism is a necessary evil for highways, infrastructure, education, defense, etc. I just like to keep it to a minimum.

"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[freeflir29 0]

"Why didn't those lazy, stupid fuckers rise up against the Nazis?"
Ahhh....let's look at gun ownership among citizens of Israel today and their spending on defense as a society. I think they learned a lesson. A terrible way to learn it but I think the Israelis have figured out that God helps those who help themselves.
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[Emma 0]

Yes Clay, but the whole point is, the Israelis (not all Jews are Israelis but whatever) are not the same people who died in the Concentration Camps. They are (some of) the ones who fled. And what are most Afganis trying to do? Yes, flee. Think it through; TODAY Afghanis are oppressed, starved, slaughtered etc. Maybe in years to come they will arm themselves, but to blame them and bomb them for failing to overthrow their own oppressors today is illogical.
Re. your comments on socialism. I think you've been hoisted by your own petarrd:
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
The Uk has too much privatisation to be rightly called 'socialist'. If anything, we have a liberal, capitalist democracy. But thanks for 'explaining' to me what kind of Government I live under. It really helped.

[freeflir29 0]

"The Uk has too much privatisation to be rightly called 'socialist'"
That, is a matter of opinion I suppose. Which we obviously differ on.
"Yes Clay, but the whole point is, the Israelis (not all Jews are Israelis but whatever) are not the same people who died in the Concentration Camps."
Obviously not. Those people are dead and don't affect shit anymore ....but Israel was founded in order to give "Jews" a homeland to escape persecution. Also, the Jeweish Pro gun lobby is one of the strongest and most "radical" in the US.
"And what are most Afganis trying to do? Yes, flee. Think it through; TODAY Afghanis are oppressed, starved, slaughtered etc. Maybe in years to come they will arm themselves, but to blame them and bomb them for failing to overthrow their own oppressors today is illogical."
Ahhh here we have the pacifist attitude again. Did George Washington suggest that the Colonists just move somewhere else? He risked the death of not only himself but his entire family and the loss of quite a fortune he had ammassed. He decided to live on his feet and it ended up founding a country.There's my answer!
To think...I was never on the High School debate team.....I think I missed my calling. Nice use of petard. Misspelled but I actually had to look that one up.......LMAO
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[favaks 0]

Clay, so because people are pacifists they deserve to be bombed by aggressors like you?
-favaks

[freeflir29 0]

"Clay, so because people are pacifists they deserve to be bombed by aggressors like you?"
When was I an aggressor? I didn't start this shit. I just want it finished in the minimum amount of time and with the minimum amount of ALLIED casualties.
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[Tee 0]

Quote

I didn't say I had all the answers. I just know that I would rather live one minute as a free man than 1,000 years as a slave. I'm kind of in to this whole freedom thing if you can't tell.

And I feel the same way as you, but fortunately for us, we have had the opportunity to learn about freedom and our rights as people. Many countries, such as Afganistan, the people have never experienced the liberation of freedom, never mind a hot meal, so for them it is impossible to even comprehend basic human rights....they cannot fully understand it if they have never experienced it. Tee

[favaks 0]

> When was I an aggressor? I didn't start this shit. I just want it finished in the minimum amount of time and with the minimum amount of ALLIED casualties.
Those innocent people didn't start this shit! So time and the lives of allies are more important than those people?
-favaks

[FallingMarc 0]

Reading all this stuff, I've got to say that I hate the idea of killing innocent civilians, but Clay's ideas are the only ones that look like they'll actually accomplish anything. These people already live in shit, ok. But if the only way we can get to the Taliban is through them, so be it. Let them rise up and help us if they so choose, all the better. If they choose not to, then, well, they have fair warning. If there's going to be war, they have to pick a side sometime.
Marc
a.k.a. Devil's Advocate

[freeflir29 0]

"So time and the lives of allies are more important than those people?"
Damn Skippy! Lives of American and allied soldiers are far more important to me than some guy in some country that I dont know! Plus, every minute longer it takes us to respond is risking the lives of people all over the world!
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[skreamer 1]

Quote

and with the minimum amount of ALLIED casualties.

Hmmm, notice how your Allies haven't sat back for 3 years before deciding to get involved?
/s
DA#2 (Marc got Devil's Advocate #1)

[freeflir29 0]

"the people have never experienced the liberation of freedom, never mind a hot meal, so for them it is impossible to even comprehend basic human rights....they cannot fully understand it if they have never experienced it."
True...thats one of the main missions of US Special Forces. Go to far off lands. Meet strange and interesting people...and train them to kill other strange and hostile people. De Opresso Libre! LMAO
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[skreamer 1]

You mean like they trained Bin Laden in the 80's?

[freeflir29 0]

"You mean like they trained Bin Laden in the 80's?"
And Ho Chi Mihn in the 40's! Yep it seems that 20 yrs or so is the standard time for people to turn around and bite us in the ass....LOL
"This conversation ends right here Captain! You can talk to the ALO when he gets back."-Me
Clay

[mwthomsen 0]

We should remember there is no perfect way to handle this situation. If we slip in and kill Bin insane we just made a martyr out of the man. There is almost no way we can come out of this with out being viewed as the bullies by the muslims in that region. Don't get me wrong if they as a group decide a holy war is in their future I have no problem saying kill em all and let God decide their ultimate resting place. My only point is this is not black and white and we as a public should be prepared to support our Government and Military 100%, because we are the ones also voicing our desire to end terrorism.

[FallingMarc 0]

That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, I read it in a book by Scott Adams(Dilbert)... it went something along the lines of, "Nothing is so certain as to have only one possible way of looking at it. I don't trust anyone who claims to look at anything in terms of black-and-white." Everything in the world is shades of grey...
Marc

[DZBone 0]

Quote

If we slip in and kill Bin insane we just made a martyr out of the man.

Very true. The best case scenario is that he spends the rest of his life in an orange jumpsuit, slowly being forgotten and becoming more irrelevant as his followers die off (actively or passively).
Another point: there are going to be important military actions, and American troops are going to die, as are innocent civilians, but ultimately, it will be the accountants and bankers that will win it. Money is the ultimate supply line, after all.

[skymedic 0]

Wow...I am sure glad I didnt read this thread before. way to much negative energy here...
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth

[heathmor 0]

That's the whole purpose. Starting a war boosts the economy.
The Federal Reserve Bank (Which is privately owned, It is not a government institution contrary to popular belief)gets fat while other businesses go down so they get to take all there money back from circulation to stop inflation. They just printed 60 billion dollars to help. The more bills they print the less each one is worth. At this rate the $ will be worth about 25cents in a couple of years!!! But when they stop circulation of it look how much money they will be holding on to!!!
Granted they attacked the USA and 4000+ people died and something should be done; but start a war? more Americans will die in the war than would have died in the towers had they been full! Doesn't really sound like a good idea to me. Maybe it's because I'm not a banker!!!
Heath
If your not living on the edge; Your taking up too much space!!!

[skreamer 1]

Heath
Over 6 000 people were killed, around 100 000 jobs will be lost in the airline industry alone - the West didn't start this war. Sure, Bin Laden is a Saudi, but a lot of his followers are Afghans and the Taleban is entirely made up of Afghans. I fall somewhere in between the two opposing views expressed in this thread : yes, strong sustained military action is called for, but no, carpet bombing and napalm is not the answer.
On another note, here's a bright idea : confiscate ALL Bin Laden's family wealth and use it to rebuild schools and hospitals in Afghanistan when the war is over. If his Saudi family have any objections, then fuck them - they knew what he was spending the family fortune on.

[heathmor 0]

Sounds like a plan to me!!!
If your not living on the edge; Your taking up too much space!!!

[skybaby420 0]

Ok, so here's my simple thoughts (no pun) on the matter.
1) We can't bomb the f* out of the entire country
a) that would not be "right"
b) we would loose all our so-called-allies and open up an old can of worms
c) the losses would far outweigh the gains
2) We can't just sit back and do nothing.
a) they have already made a joke out of us in so many ways
b) we asked for it in a way (see money paragraph below)
c) we made an ass of ourselves in the past
3) Of course we could go in and kill him and the Taliban, but
a) I agree it would make a myrtr out of him
O don't know about you, but HE is not the One I would choose.
Ok now here's something else.
As much as everyone says the economy is going to get worse (perhaps they are right to an extent), I have said it before and I will say it again that the economy is a state of mind! I, myself am about to move to another state this coming weekend and I am worried about changing jobs. But it is not going to stop me from doing what I want to do (yeeeaaaa freedom). Let's face it, people, EVERYONE in some way is making or has made money off of this deal.
So I say, let's go in there, capture the f*ers, claim the land as US territory, but give it to the peops - bring em over here and make a theme park out of em. Now how 'bout those capitalistic views? Anyone wanna vote?
Ok, now back to the money thing and the state of mind thing. There are some people out there who are ONLY money-hungry. I know this may come as quite a shock to some of you. Nah. Now, YOU may not personally be all about money, and I may not be personally all about money, but the American people viewed as a whole are VERY MUCH ALL ABOUT MONEY. And I'm kind of sorry to say that this whole incident well, you could just say that money came back to bite us in the ass so to speak.
Yes, there's an unspoken brotherhood among us all now for this is going to be a huge part of our history. I keep hearing - American Pride. True. Yes, we have bonded together. Recently anyway. How come we can't have that all the time? Sad to say that it takes something like this. So are we really then just all about money and our own selves? Hmmmm. Wouldn't it be just great if we could bond together and raise so much money for our national debt? Too bad we won't have THAT kind of brotherhood.
Is it better to lose "things" over pride than to loose pride over "things"?

[Emma 0]

Quote

Nice use of petard. Misspelled ...

Pedant.

[des 2]

photo aside,i think i love you skybaby420.
best brains in the country i think.please go into politics