Zennie 0 #1 October 19, 2001 So I'm watching "Crosswind"... good flick, but Passe goes a little overboard on the slo-mo IMHO... and I'm watching Olav FF all around that RW big-way. Obviously incredible stuff and a blast to watch. But, I can't help but think that it's also a not-so-subtle statement that "I can fly circles around you belly fliers."Now this is not taking anything away from Olav... he's a true innovator in every sense of the word, brilliant even... but why does he have to do all of the innovating? Why can't belly fliers also be creative?Just reflecting on my experiences at the DZ I see a lot of people dissing belly flying/RW as "boring". Of course, any decent RW flier knows isn't true, but to a degree it seems that belly flying really hasn't evolved much beyond bigger and more complex formations. I also hear RW people saying they'd try freefy, but their rigs aren't FF safe. Then there's the hybrid movement.So I'm thinking about this... watching Olav... watching Airspeed do their burble hopping... watching Olav... thinking some more... and then it sort of struck me.If there can be vRW, why can't there be hFF?I know hardcore freefliers are probably gonna scoff at this but why the heck not? Why do we have to belly fly all nice and level? Why can't we play around with tracking and altitude differentials & back flying and come up with something really cool & exciting but never going off the horizontal axis?Seems like a good way to get people who otherwise might not try freefly doing something fun & exciting and maybe take RW to the next level?Let the laughing begin... "Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #2 October 19, 2001 I am not laughing at all........but:the deal with hybrid flying is that everyone must be on the same sheet of music if safety is to be maintained. You can't have people flying flat only to have someone zoom past and around them in a vertical attitude. Same goes for the people who just zoomed past only to "cork" into a belly formation right under someone just speeding up to catch them. Collisions would abound if it were left to the individual, so choreography is critical, unlike in a high speed vertical "flock" or a low-speed tracking dive. Personally, I like mixing it up; it keeps me from getting bored. Chuck"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #3 October 19, 2001 QuoteYou can't have people flying flat only to have someone zoom past and around them in a vertical attitude.Agreed. But what I'm talking about isn't throwing belly flying into a freefly mix. You're right, then we're talking about throwing corks in there & that would be dangerous as hell.What I'm talking about is doing freefly-ish things on strictly a horizontal plane. So everyone would be flying on their belly or back. My point basically is that I can think of a lot of fun things to do on you belly that would be freefly-ish in nature.We get fixated on only doing things a certain way. I'm just suggesting that maybe there are things yet to be explored on the horizontal axis."Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #4 October 19, 2001 Things like spinning a closed accordion, throwing back and front loops and barrel rolls between points, over-under transitions... that kinda stuff? That's fun stuff! And bringing a 3d aspect into belly flying may help encourage newbies to bother learning to belly fly... which means I'm all for it cuz I think all jumpers should have basic belly flying skills. pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 October 19, 2001 QuoteWhat I'm talking about is doing freefly-ish things on strictly a horizontal plane. So everyone would be flying on their belly or back.A ha! What you are talking about is FREAK flying. Hark the days of pre-prison Roger Nelson and the Freak Brothers convention. Check out any old late '70s or early '80s video and you will see plenty of people flying around on their backs docked on belly to earth people (with big floppy jumpsuits, no less!) There was plenty of 3-dimensional stuff going on back then too; so called "enterprise" dives and the like. Yes, that is fun stuff. As a matter of fact just last year four of us did a dive that mixed straight up RW with two inverted pieces. Did bipole-360-bipole with the "out" people upside down; very stylish. Chuck "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #6 October 19, 2001 QuoteThings like spinning a closed accordion, throwing back and front loops and barrel rolls between points, over-under transitions... that kinda stuff? That's fun stuff! Exactly.For example, here's a move I was thinking of. You have two people facing off. The objective being to cat behind the person you're facing. So instead of flying around behind the person and grabbing on, why not barrel roll on your back, de-arch (or arch, I suppose, depending on your perspective), drive forward and do a 1/2 back flip over the person's back? Play the burble right and you should come out right behind the person facing their legs.Things like that...QuoteAnd bringing a 3d aspect into belly flying may help encourage newbies to bother learning to belly fly...Exactly again. It would be a way of learning belly flying skills that would serve you well on any RW jump while having fun in the process.Plus you'd get some exposure to freefly and learn some things that might serve you well in *that* environment as well.As most of you know, my objective is to be well rounded. Just trying to think of ways to merge the two so that you're always practicing skills that can be used in either discipline. "Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #7 October 19, 2001 QuoteA ha! What you are talking about is FREAK flying. Hark the days of pre-prison Roger Nelson and the Freak Brothers convention. NOW do you guys understand where the nickname FREAKSISTER comes from?!?! hehe...and you didn't think I knew my skydiving history...let's go do a lazy boy!SisMusic should trigger some kind of response... - The Chemical Brothers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #8 October 19, 2001 QuoteNOW do you guys understand where the nickname FREAKSISTER comes from?April, you don't really think you're the first freaksister I have met, do you?Chuckie"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #9 October 19, 2001 Hell, that's all I was doing on most of my first coule dozen 2 ways. Me and another newbie would go up and just chase each other around the sky. Tag, turn and track...I'd chase, throw in a barrel roll while catching up....tag...get big and move up and away....they try to match it and tag back. Good way to practice movement and control. cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #10 October 19, 2001 Zennie,You sound like just the kind of guy RW needs at every drop zone. Hate to use and mutate the current catch phrase, but thinking outside the box (position) can definitely put the fun back in. I say, if the formation has a name, let's not do it. Homer: Okay, brain. You don't like me, and I don't like you, but let's get through this thing and then I can continue killing you with beer.Homer's Brain: It's a deal! flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #11 October 20, 2001 Ok, just to play devils advocate- In RW there is an exact way, an efficient way and a perfected way to go from point to point. Chasing that perfection is part of the challenge. Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #12 October 20, 2001 No Chuck, it wouldn't surprise me if you'd met other freaksisters...but l'm sure that I am the first freaksister a LOT of these people have met! SisMusic should trigger some kind of response... - The Chemical Brothers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #13 October 22, 2001 So instead of flying around behind the person and grabbing on, why not barrel roll on your back, de-arch (or arch, I suppose, depending on your perspective), drive forward and do a 1/2 back flip over the person's back? Play the burble right and you should come out right behind the person facing their legs.You just pretty much described one of the core VRW moves. You just twisted to be recovering belly down instead of on a vertical axis. CopyCat! "There once was a man named Enis....."-Krusty the ClownClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
