"Emergency" BASE rig rehash

[Macaulay 0]

Everyone's put in their two cents on the subject. Being that we have a nice new, updated editorial/article on the home page, I bringing it up again, and putting in MY two cents.
My vote was that the Emergency Building Escape Parachute was a bad idea. For me, it would be a good idea to keep a BASE rig at the office. I used to work in a high rise, and I did just that. But I have a few hundred skydives and climbing number of BASE jumps.
However, I can't imagine a whuffo with a BASE rig, no matter how customized. BASE jumps, particularly buildings, are very difficult and require a lot of planning for even a seasoned BASE jumper. For a whuffo, a building jump would most likely mean death.
I don't that even an experienced BASE jumper would have been able to determine wind direction on the ground on 9-11, as there aren't really any highly visible indicators. While an experienced BASE jumper can easily deal with a downwind or crosswind landing, does anyone think a whuffo could?
The necessary reaction time is SO much higher in a BASE jump than a skydive. A whuffo loses it on a skydive when they have a minute of freefall and four minutes of canopy time. What could they possibly pull off in ten seconds?
Canopy control is definitely something that requires experience and "feel". As docile as a good BASE-specific canopy is, they could still drive you into the ground hard with inaccurate toggle input. That is, if a whuffo could even get the toggles down in time. Jumping out of a building most-likely means that one would have a cement or blacktop landing area, which demands a pretty damn accurate landing. On top of that, what surrounds the base of a high rise could be considered more of an obstacle course than a landing area.
Unfortunately, I saw video and photos of people jumping from the WTC. As shallow as it may seem, I couldn't help but notice body positions. Most people were actually facing the building, and were extremely unstable. This, to me, is an important observation when considering handing out BASE rigs. Launching and then flying for stability and separation are vital in a BASE jump. These are skills that are attained with years of experience.
Relaxation and alertness play a key role in any type of jump. Need I say more about this? A whuffo in a burning building, wearing a very unfamiliar device, who's about to jump from what is, to them, a great height would be anything but relaxed.
A wild idea, but let's say a business requires that all employees have one of these and learns to use them. An emergency comes up and everyone jumps. Traffic and off-heading openings would be chaotic.
How many people would unnecessarily resort to the more dangerous BASE exit than the reliable standard methods for emergencies such as bomb threats, small fires, etc.? Although... it would be a good excuse to get away with a BASE jump (call in a bomb threat... as soon as it is announced, go for a rid). ;)
Most buildings have windows that are nearly impossible to remove or penetrate, anyway. I'm not even sure how people got out of WTC windows... maybe those do open. Where I used to work, I know for sure that the window would not have been an option.
I would recommend keeping a BASE rig at the office for BASE jumpers only. Even then, scoping out the building for a common wind direction, clear landing area, and establishing a route down to the ground would be recommended, as well as a lot of experience on your rig, and with BASE in general.
I've also seen a lot of the gear that's being put out there, and it's frightening what people are buying (OLD surplus rounds that would require a PLF into concrete!). Precision's system was the most practical that I've seen, but being that a lot of skydiving and BASE experiencing would be required to pull off a proper exit, a Perigree/Reaktor/Mojo/Fox solution would be much better.
And packing... how does that work with these? Scary...
Did I say I was putting in my two cents? I seem to have emptied my account on the subject.
- Mac
PS
Rain in the PNW was bad until I was turned on to the countless wonderful BASE sites in the area.

[mountainman 0]

Hmmm.....even if they got hurt when they landed or a couple people died due to "high traffic" under canopy, wouldn't it still beat dying? Just a thought.
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Brandon Wren

[skyhawk 2]

i think the point is that ppl would panic and just jump even if it was just a fire and then there would be avoidible deaths while i think that rigs are a good idea in theory they are impractical
i live my life 14000 ft at a time, nothen else matters, in that 60 seconds or less im free

[Macaulay 0]

Exactly.
- Mac

[Aviatrr 0]

If somebody wants to keep a BASE rig in their high rise office or home, they can get skydiving training(and preferably do a few BASE jumps, or at least still air exits, such as a balloon), learn how the gear works, THEN buy BASE gear.. If they don't want to "go through all that work", then too bad.. I think that there would be more killed by an "emergency BASE rig" than saved..
Mike

[mountainman 0]

I still think that they would be more useful to have there than not. Especially in cases such as very high rise. Maybe they would need to some type of idiot-proofing done to them or something. For instance, where ever they are going to be used, have some type of way they cant be used unless activated or something by someone who knows when and when not to be used.
Just a thought. Obviously having BASE rigs for people living in highrises isn't perfect, but what is? You are gonna have bad things happen with whatever you do.
--------------
Brandon Wren

[wildblue 7]

I still say for the money, there's much better alternatives. Someone in the other thread mentioned fire-retardent suit/gloves/boots and O2 - a much better way to give people the chance to save themselves
It says your signature can be 100 characters, but I can only get it to accept 50.

[mountainman 0]

will fire retardant things like that allow someone to walk through floors and floors of fire and not break through weakening floor foundations?
--------------
Brandon Wren

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

will fire retardant things like that allow someone to walk through floors and floors of fire and not break through weakening floor foundations?

Do you know what fire does to the air currents around a burning building? You're better off with fire retardant clothing and a smoke filter of some sort.
Your chances of survival are _much_ greater if you wait for the rescue workers, if you give them a chance to do their jobs without interference from you. Waiting will also increase the chances for others to survive as well.

[mountainman 0]

If those firefighters can get up to the 100th floor, save my ass, and get us both down, then I am all for it. Otherwise, I would rather take my chances under canopy.
But hell.......I'm done with this thread. I stated my opinion, so I'm not gonna keep going on about it.
Thanks for the food for thought though. --------------
Brandon Wren

[Michele 1]

ALERT!!!!!ALERT!!!!!ALERT!!!!!ALERT!!!!!
NATIONAL ALERT ISSUED: HELL HAS FROZEN, GRAB YOUR ICE SKATES
Stunning the nation with the news, at 10:00 p.m., October 29, 2001, Macauley and Michele agreed that "jumping out of a burning high rise building without lots of experience in skydiving is likely a very, very, very bad idea".
Citing downdrafts, updrafts, idiots, and impenetrable windows, Mac stated his position clearly and without hesitation. Michele concurred with all his points, and, when asked to contribute her own opinion, she was, for once, rendered almost speechless, except to say "I can't believe it, but I agree with him. I really do." She had nothing further to add, leaving the podium shaking her head in disbelief.
Mayor Guiliani stated: "if those two can agree, perhaps there's hope yet". Donald Rumsfeld, when asked, thought that "I never, in all my days, would have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes." Colin Powell, taking a break from his coalition building, mused "well, I thought that getting the coalition to agree on something would be impossible. We now have hope, and we shall persist onward with our endeavors, and shall not be defeated. Those two are an inspiration!". Bush could not be reached for comment.

Michele
"What of the dreams that never die? Turn to your left at the end of the sky".
~e e cummings~

[lazerq3 0]

Michele...Thats a FIRST right??????
Well then BEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
jason

[skreamer 1]

Mac, here's my £0.01/$0.02 on escape BASE rigs for the great unwashed : I could care less.
So, these are the same people who slag off skydivers and totally slam base jumping? They don't have the balls to skydive let alone base jump as a sport, yet feel they could be one base jump wonders jumping from a burning building??? Part of me almost wants to say let them do it, if for nothing other than the sheer spectator value of any attempted base jumps by these nimrods. But of course they need to be protected from themselves - so it is probably a bit mercenary of any company hoping to cash in on all this mass hysteria and make a quick buck.
What next? crash courses in HALO jumps from '30 000? ("crash courses" hahaha, made myself laugh)
later
/s

[cobaltdan 0]

i have heard a bunch of skydivers make statements like 'if i had a parachute on the upper floors of the wtc i would have lived.'
this is ridiculous.
some morbid math:
energy in 1 gallon of jet fuel: 135,000 btu
a boeing 767 holds 23,980 gallons. it is estimated that only 3000 gallons detonated on impact, the remaining
continued to burn. the explosive energy from both planes = 9 * 10 ^11 joules (10 to the 11th power). this is equivalent to 180 tons of TNT. the energy released from the burning of the remaining fuel is over 5 * 10 ^12 joules, this is equivalent to over 990 tons of TNT.
50,000,000,000,000 joules (a joule is a watt/second) this is how much power was released generating heat from the burning fuel. this is equal in energy release to a small tactical nuclear warhead or almost 2000 tomahawk cruise missiles.
the heat energy of the fire was double the total collapse energy of both towers (1,365' tall. 1.25 million tons in weight, collapse energy 2 * 10 ^12 joules).
try to fathom what all that heat did, generating tremendous intensity swirling air patterns. thermal updrafts,
vortecies, down drafts, etc....
what makes anyone think that if helicopters could not fly through the fire turbulence anywhere near the roof, that a parachute would function ?

sincerely,
dan
atair aerodynamics
www.extremefly.com

[freeflir29 0]

"crash courses in HALO jumps from '30 000"
That would actually be far more safe........
"There once was a man named Enis....."-Krusty the Clown
Clay