Gun Control

[wildblue 7]

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Yea yea yea guns dont kill people, people kill people. But it sure makes it easier to kill someone when you dont have to stab them repeatadly and cover yourself with their blood.

Let's say by some miracle, every gun in the world disappeared. Do you really crime and murders would stop? Or even drop considerably? As pointed out above - if people want to kill/rob/rape people, they will.
Your statistics about children aren't really signifigant. If kids want to kill themselves, they don't need a gun, So, if we say 730 children died (what year were these stats? And where did you find them, I can't seem to) from gun-related homicides and accidental deaths caused by guns. Ok.. and? How many died because they didn't wear a helemt on their bike? How many children under 15 died in total that year? What 25 other countries are you comparing it to? I'll bet I could easily find 25 other coutries that the U.S.'s under 15 population is 12 times their combined total.
You keep pointing out that guns kill people. Guns also protect people. You'll never be able to just make guns go away, it won't happen.
"A Department of Justice-sponsored survey found that 40% of felons had chosen not to commit at least one specific crime for fear their victims were armed, and 34% admitted being scared off or shot at by armed victims. U. S. Department of Justice victimization surveys show that the protective use of a firearm lessens the chance that a rape, robbery or assault attempt will be successfully completed and also reduces the chance of injury to the intended victim."
Let's say your girlfriend gets attacked, with the guy intent on raping/robbing/killing her. Neither of them have a gun. What do you really think is going to happen?
Now give her a gun - I'm not even saying she's going to use it and kill the guy, but he's not risking his life for a few bucks or to do what he wants to do with her.
I know everyone has thier personal beliefs on this, and no one is going to change anyone else's mind, but it's fun ain't it?
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[RemiAndKaren 0]

PS: its not MY article... its an article I found in 5 minutes doing a quick search on yahell...
Didnt some guy say he wasnt gonna post on this anymore... what a load a BS... I'm stopping now.. I swear.. just try and stop making irrational statements for while, that should help me keeping my mouth shut!
Remi
Muff 914

[AggieDave 6]

Remi,
You're right, I did misread that. AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[jfields 0]

Wildblue,
The stats about children are significant. Saying that more kids die from things other than guns is irrelevant. Why add another easy and senseless cause of death. How many people used to die from smallpox, polio, infections or half a dozen other diseases that aren't widespread or fatal anymore? It is called progress. We could make similar progress in reducing the number of kids dying from gun violence.
Please explain how guns were insignificant in the events at Columbine.
Justin
My Homepage

[AggieDave 6]

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Please explain how guns were insignificant in the events at Columbine.

Please explain how the parents were insignificant at Columbine and how video games, music and guns are to blame.
Also, I seem to remember they tried to use pipe bombs. They would have done what they wanted to do with or with out guns.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[jfields 0]

Dave,
You right, the parents are significant. The kids didn't buy the guns. It was irresponsible ownership that provided them. Thanks for helping make my point.
I never said video games or music were relevant.
Yes they also tried to use pipe bombs. "Tried". They didn't work. But that easily-available, ever-so-reliable gun sure does!
Your right, messed up kids will try to do things with or without guns. The guns just let 'em kill a lot more people. Great.....
Justin
My Homepage

[wildblue 7]

jfields -
I was saying the context in which used those stats made them meaningless, not that fact that a lot of kids die from guns.
Guns did not cause two wackos to go around their school shooting it up. If those two demented children wanted to kill a bunch of thier classmates, they didn't need guns to do it. They knew how to make pipe bombs, and used those, they could have stabbed them, poisoned them, run over them with a car, burnt the school down, used a bow and arrow, gassed the place, run a semi into the building... there's plenty of ways to kill people. Did having guns make it easier? Maybe. Did the popularity of violence in America coupled with parents who probably didn't give a shit help? Without a doubt.
So you think if they wouldn't have had access to guns, a lot of innocent kids wouldn't have died that day?
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[wildblue 7]

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The kids didn't buy the guns.

I thought they did.... didn't one of them (or they got a friend to, maybe that was it) bought guns at a gun show. (don't get me started on gun shows, I do think most of those should be shut down)
I do completely agree with you about responsible ownership. I think gun locks and locked cabinents are a must for any gun owner.
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[jfields 0]

Wildblue,
Okay, context of stats issue noted. Disregard my rebuttal. The causes of the kids psychological issues are probably varied. They were definitely whacked and bent on causing trouble. My issue with the irresponsible gun ownership is that it give the potential for a lot more people to be hurt/killed before the idiot is brought under control.
The guns didn't make the kids bad, buy why give guns to already bad kids? I blame the parents as much (or more) than the kids, by the way...
Justin
My Homepage

[jfields 0]

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I do completely agree with you about responsible ownership. I think gun locks and locked cabinents are a must for any gun owner.

That is 99% of my issue with guns. Responsible ownership doesn't bother me. We're actually in agreement on that.
Justin
My Homepage

[flyhi 24]

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Yeah....I still think I should be able to buy AT-4's and Browning M-2's at Wal-Mart.

Cool joke. Go to a 24-hour Walmart at 2:30 in the morning, find the nearest Assistant Manager and say, "Excuse me, where are the handguns and ski masks?"

They love that.
flyhi

[AggieDave 6]

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"Excuse me, where are the handguns and ski masks?"

LOL! Very very funny...
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[RemiAndKaren 0]

That didnt last long, did it?

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The US was founded on armed rebellion and is seen as a fundamental right to allow the masses to rebel (in a armed manner) against a oppressive gov't. The UK went through a much more gradual transition from strict monarchy to consitutional monarchy and never went through a successful rebellion to topple the established regime

That argument almost works... what do you make of France? They topled the Monarchy (and if you think the US Revolution was bloddy...), they're National Anthem says "aux armes citoyens" (take arms citizens), but it doesn't have this obsession that the US has with guns... why? dont ask me! how shoud I know!
Remi
Muff 914

[rgoper 0]

this is obviously a highly emotional issue in america, you have your pros, and cons. i'm 43 years old, i've carried a weapon(s) all my life. i travel a lot, and some of the places i go, you more than likely wouldn't go out of fear. i go, because i took the CCL course, plus some teclose hours, and i obtained my CCL. i carry everywhere i go, and just like they teach you in the class, it will diminish crime, because criminals don't know who's got them, and who don't. that's the reason for the concealment. which by the way i dissagree with, i think we should be able to have them exposed. that way, there really won't be any doubt in any criminals minds who has them, and who dont. say your in a mall, someones getting mugged, your not bruce lee, and you don't have a firearm? what do you do? throw them to the wolves? most people do, they "don't want to get involved" i raised four children, one now in the military, i've owned all types of hunting rifles, and a few semi-automatic assualt military rifles as well, i don't have on of my kids who can't field strip, and clean a .45, .9mm, .223 ar-15, .308 H&K 91 A-2, i taught them this, and to shoot as well, to prevent them any injury. for those who strongly oppose the first right ammenment right to have and bear arms, i don't know what to say, it's almost like having your freedom of speech removed, which, by the way, can be just as deadly as any bullet traveling at 3820 fps. gun manufacturers are coming up with new ideas every day to prevent handguns and firearms of all types to be rendered useless, unless authorized either by gun locks, trigger locks, and i understand there working on a fingerprint mechanism that will not let anyone other than the authorized owner to activate the weapon. if we do not let this law stand, only criminals will be armed, then what?? sobering thought, yet provacative.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"
So Is Kevlar!

[RemiAndKaren 0]

sorry WB.. can you explain what you meant by
..........I was saying the context in which used those stats made them meaningless, not that fact that a lot of kids die from guns..........
I'd like to rebuff your statement, but dont understand it...
Remi
Muff 914

[Zennie 0]

Abortion anyone?
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[AggieDave 6]

Zennie, how about a hotter topic then abortion: Emacs or Vi...
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[Zennie 0]

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Zennie, how about a hotter topic then abortion: Emacs or Vi...

Oh that's easy. Anyone in their right mind knows vi is far superior to Emacs.
"Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

[wildblue 7]

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Zennie, how about a hotter topic then abortion: Emacs or Vi...

That's funny, I'm pretty sure we did that before!! I think Vi won though (as it should, it's obviously superior)
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[RemiAndKaren 0]

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for those who strongly oppose the first right ammenment right to have and bear arms, i don't know what to say, it's almost like having your freedom of speech removed

Why do some americans think that they have the monopoly on freedom and that they have the one and only answer to make sure they keep freespeech???
Some oppressed (read with strict gun control laws) countries are doing just fine withough guns: the UK, Canada, France.... To equate gun ownership with freedom and freespeech is hard to justify in my view since many countries do fine without them. Heck, in France, you have enough freedom and freespeech to declare yourself a communist and get elected to government.
Remi
Muff 914

[wildblue 7]

Oh, well, I love to be rebuffed....
In an earlier post, I said your statistics were meaningless in the way they were presented. You didn't give anything else to compare to, or say what the other 25 countries were, or give total number of deaths in children under 15. It also just said "played a role" were they hunting accidents? Kids shooting kids? Adults shooting kids? A child caught in the cross-fire of a drive-by shooting? And the percentages didn't seem like they meant much, they're just there to be numbers and frighten people to make a point - that's why in my response I factored out suicides (if someone wants to kill themselves, whether or not they used a gun is irrelevant)
And what does the fire arm death rate of children have anything to do with guns being allowed? It's playing on people's sympathy "the poor innocent children" ... when in fact we have a problem with violence among our young. Guns being around did not cause our young people to be violent.
I think I just completely rambled on that one... hope it made a little sense. Oh, and it was later on (after I posted that) that you cited your source, complete with what countries it was being compared to, etc... so that made it a little better.
Buff.... err... rebuff away!
edit: And since when can't you have a gun in Canada? Canada has some of the better ones I've heard of. If I remember right, I was told once that in Canada the only room of the house that you are allowed to shoot and kill an intruder is the bathroom. It was something to that effect... that was a while ago. Makes perfect sense though. Any one verify that for me? My memory is fading in my old age.
I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad
I got sunshine, in a bag

[RemiAndKaren 0]

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Oh, and it was later on (after I posted that) that you cited your source, complete with what countries it was being compared to, etc... so that made it a little better.
Buff.... err... rebuff away!

No need to... you just did... Your right, I should have included the full ink to the source initially.
Remi
Muff 914

[jfields 0]

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for those who strongly oppose the first right ammenment right to have and bear arms

It doesn't matter if you own them, as long as you don't kill anyone with them, or allow others to. That is the problem. many people have no control or responsibility over the weapons they own. And I'm sure our founding fathers would have a problem with that.
And as an aside, the Constitution was intended to preserve the rights of citizens to bear arms as part of a militia, in defense of their country. Disregarding what the NRA says, does this honestly apply to most of the people that insist they have the right to own guns?
Go read it for yourself:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/amdt2.html
Justin
My Homepage

[RemiAndKaren 0]

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I was told once that in Canada the only room of the house that you are allowed to shoot and kill an intruder is the bathroom.

ROTFLMAO.... I'd like to see whare that came from!!!
In Canada, gun ownership is not a right. Its a priviledge.
Not sure what the latest gun control aws are (left Canada a while ago, and to be honest, was extremely fed up with politics after a fairly militant youth), but the goal of some proposed laws (not sure if they were accepted) was to ban handguns and semi or automatic weapons. There are also supposed to be tougher checks before getting a licence then before "December 6th" (unlike most of America, we try and learn from the attrocities of some wackos instead of burrying our heads being some antiquated right to own a small arsennal)...
I'd be even happier with a complete ban on guns, except for police and military, but that's just me, and I know it wouldnt be feasible in Canada, having the US as a neigbourg.
Wildblue: you can come up with arguments like"what if your grilfriend..." till you're blue in the face, i dont believe escalation is the way forward... same goes for whoever said something about carrying a gun in the car ever since someone pulled one on him... you guys in the US keep escalating if you want to, it aint the society I want. Maybe its the only way you have forward, since you already have f*cked up your social fabric with a glorisation of violence.
As I said before, I feel less safe in the US the elsewhere in the western world (I dont feel unsafe, but definitaly less so) SPECIFICALY because of the gun culture that exist there.
Sorry if I paint Americans with a wide brush, its not fair, but its almost accurate... (sorry Justin!)
Remi
Muff 914

[skymedic 0]

if you are in the situation you will want one...
Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth