whata nut case

[freeflir29 0]

"how the hell is a spring-loaded PC going to extract the pin"
Ummm....Creamer......The rip chord holds the container closed! When you pull it the PC springs out of the container. It's packed right on top of the D bag. What are you....an AFF snob? "Shut up Dummy!"- Fred G Sanford

[gemini 0]

I think of a horseshoe mal like you do. You can get one from both a ripcord and a BOC, and both have different advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation at the time. I personally prefer the BOC because I have had the spring-loaded pilot on my back too!
Gemini
... Fear? Fear is riding the plane down ...

[skreamer 1]

Thank God for that Edit/delete feature!
Clay is right (shit, first Justin, now Clay - I am NOT having a good day!)

[skymedic 0]

dont want any one doubting your great knowledge kreamer???
Marc
Res Firma Mitescere Nescite

[jfields 0]

Quote

Clay is right (shit, first Justin, now Clay - I am NOT having a good day!)

Shit, I bet that hurt.
Justin
My Homepage

[freeflir29 0]

"first Justin, now Clay"
Dammitt! Sloppy seconds again!!!!
"Shut up Dummy!"- Fred G Sanford

[skreamer 1]

Exactly! (now WTF does Res Firma Mitescere Nescite mean?)

[lazerq3 0]

At our DZ your on RC through your AFP, and then when you go form RC to BOC you do it with a coach jumper. That way if you do forget that first time someone will be there to slap your hand and get rid of it. Like was mentioned before ,,all it takes is a couple minutes of practice throwing out before the jump. A mistake that should have been easily avoided IMHO.
not that I'm an expert or anything,just making an observation
jason

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

and as a result our CCI (this happened at my home DZ) is now talking about putting students on throw-away from jump number one

We went to this system last year and have not had any problems whatsoever. It didn't make any sense to have to transition people to throw out after 10 jumps, so we just did away with it.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[AggieDave 6]

Personally, I think that if you can't operate a BOC correctly, even with low jump numbers, you shouldn't jump. Think about the mechanical processes involved here, there are less on a BOC system (non kill-line) then a RC. There is more potential for failure in a RC system: RC getting stuck, spring not engaging correctly, burble catching the PC, etc. With a BOC, as long as you didn't tie the damn thing in a knot around your belt it will pretty much snap out into the wind you put it in and pull your bag out (assuming you have proper tension on your closing loop). One of the few worries is that you will have tension lock on your PC in the BOC; however, that is less and less of a problem now days because of improved container construction. Also, worst case senerio, if you ARE unstable and you need to deploy, you can control where your PC goes (to a point). Other then that all that is needed is a quick flick of the wrist and boom, you're container opens.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[freeflir29 0]

"you can control where your PC goes (to a point)."
Yes, YOU CAN. But what about a student that can't even stay stable and is flipping out. I think it's easier for them to just rip one handle than give them something else to think about.
"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson

[jumpervali 2]

After a 6,000 ft wrestling match with an AFF student I was glad she was wearing a ripcord rig! I managed to have her flat and stable for all of 2 sec. at a time. I had to dump her on her side as I went into a standup to get her clean air. In an unstable body position a spring loaded P/C is very effective. Throw outs are good for the norm, but get that 1 tuff one, and you'll be happy for ripcords! It takes a minimum of 30 reps to develop muscle memory, and 40 to "unlearn it." So the transition to a throwout can catch you off guard.
keep em' safe folks
jumpervali

[AggieDave 6]

That's a good point, since I'm not a jumpmaster (yetMaybe AFF rigs should/could have a secondary RC system that is super easy for a JM to reach to pull in strange situations...but then again, I guess that big silver handle on the front of the rig is that too.
AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[jumpervali 2]

You can pull the main ripcord from both sides on any standard AFF rig. Only if a student is in AAD range should you pull their reserve. Its a very red area! Reserve pulls on a student is an extreme measure.
jumpervali

[skreamer 1]

Quote

There is more potential for failure in a RC system: RC getting stuck, spring not engaging correctly, burble catching the PC, etc.

Then how come ALL rigs essentially use a RC system for reserves?

[larry 0]

My two cents…
All students at my DZ start on BOC, the idea being that it is better to use it from the start since it is what you would ultimately be doing anyway, don’t have to relearn anything so less chance of a brain fart. The more you change things (while a student) the more chances for a screw up.
Also, it is not as dangerous going the other way, but I have a friend who threw away a ripcord after using BOC for a long time. He was originally taught on ripcord then went to BOC for a long time then used the ripcord system one time on rented gear. I’m sure he is not the only one who has ever done that, then a split second after letting go screamed “oh shit!”
For me BOC from the start.
-Larry

[harro 0]

sounds like the man needs a bit of re training or someone would have to sit him down and discuss why he is skydiving!!
Freemind, freesky, freebeer, freefly, freesex

[chicagoskydiver 0]

With the exception of two tandem jumps, I have never used a ripcord in my life. They start all students at Skydive Chicago with BOC systems. It's the same at Skydive Illinois. Why learn something that will have to be unlearned anyway? As far as spring loaded pilot chutes and ripcords on reserves, that's a good idea because it gets the PC out quicker, and is also better from an unstable body position, which if you're pulling your reserve you're probably not stable.
Hackey

[sunshine 2]

The only time I had a pilot chute caught in my burble was with a spring loaded one. I trained on a ripcord and didn't use a BOC throw out until around 30 jumps. I didn't seem to have a problem. I did practice touches on the ground and everything went just fine.
"Leave my brain alone!!" ~ SpongeBob

[AggieDave 6]

How many times have you used your reserve? The point is, with more mechanics and the more its used the more of a chance it will wear and more of a chance it will fail. And every repack, a rigger checks the spring, the cable housing, etc. AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[pdj6p 0]

I have a question for those of you at drop zones who start students off on b.o.c. instead of ripcords. If the student is not altitude aware and goes low or even can't get any where stable at pull time, how does the jumpmaster deploy the chute for them? I'm not they are doing anything wrong or any thing. I just want to know how they do it.
Don

[jumpervali 2]

For a BOC on an AFF jump you pull out the P/C and let it go from the main side. From the reserve side you pull the cable that opens the piano hinge on the spandex pouch and flick it, or tip the students hips.
jumpervali

[pdj6p 0]

so if I uderstand you correctly the b.o.c. is a modified one that can be opened from either side. is this correct?
Don

[jumpervali 2]

Yes, you can deploy from either side for them.On the main side you pull out the P/C. On the reserve side you open the pouch and brush it into the wind. It works rather well! Remember I'm talking about the Instructor pulling for them, they are to always use the right side.
jumpervali

[huffermoose 0]

With the exception of two tandem jumps, I have never used a ripcord in my life. They start all students at Skydive Chicago with BOC systems. It's the same at Skydive Illinois. Why learn something that will have to be unlearned anyway? As far as spring loaded pilot chutes and ripcords on reserves, that's a good idea because it gets the PC out quicker, and is also better from an unstable body position, which if you're pulling your reserve you're probably not stable.
Hackey
just an observation here. A B.O.C doesn't actually mean to say if it's a rip cord or a throw away pilot chute. it's just the position of the deploying method, i.e you can have a throw away on your leg strap or on your B.O.C likewise with a rip cord (mind you rip cord goes from the hip not the leg strap).
One more thing are there any other types of deployement methods?? other than hip mounted (or leg strap) and B.O.C???
cya mooooooose