kizzie92 0 #1 December 28, 2001 Hmm...Hello my lovelies!I was just over on wreck and came accross an interesting thread. At least it would have been if it had not immediately degenerated into the usual slugging match. Soooo! I thought I'd bring it right back over here where one might expect to find some intelligent responses. Bwaaaahahahahahahahah ha ha hee ummm herrumph...right then!Everybody has ratings cept the camera fliers or so it would seem. Now when I say camera fliers I mean the so called pros who are shooting TM's and Aff's. Those who generally make money hanging about in student and novice airspace. Quite the responsibility n'est pas! I would be the first to say that most camera fliers are very professional and compitent skydivers but situations do arise and I have seen it. For example, a DZ is heavily booked with TM's and is stressed for a video geek for some reason or another. Might there not be a tendancy to put someone out there with a camera who fancies his/her self but is not quite up to the job? I know a few 100 jump wonders with new camera gear that would quite happily, given the opportinity, step forward into the fray. I also know a few 'should know betters' who would and have allowed this kind of thing to happen. Very, very scury! This seriously raises the possibility of collisions, drogue collisions, canopy collisions, bad video and a multitude of nightmare scenarios potentially resulting in lawsuits, injuries, fatalities, pissed off clients at al.So what is the answer?Shudd we introduce training and ratings for vid geeks! (Giving more power unto our regulating bodies, USPA, CSPA etc)?Shudd we trust the individual DZ's to regulate themselves in this matter?Shudd it be down to the TM/JM's or AFF instructors to dictate who they allow to jump in their students airspace?Whaddya think?Blue skies (Pleeease)TonySometimes I see a small speck in the sky, a human being that was given to fly -Pearl Jam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 74 #2 December 28, 2001 If my memory serves me well, in Holland you need a C-licence to jump camera, and need a special permit/registration at the KNVvL (Dutch regulation bureau for all air-sports)Can you just strap a camera to your butt in the US or do you also need at least B or C licence??JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kizzie92 0 #3 December 28, 2001 In answer to : Can you just strap a camera to your butt in the US or do you also need at least B or C licence??-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Naah! You could strap a bloody cannon to your ass over here as long as the DZ allows you to get away with it.:-) TonySometimes I see a small speck in the sky, a human being that was given to fly - Pearl Jam! Yeah man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #4 December 28, 2001 QuoteCan you just strap a camera to your butt in the US or do you also need at least B or C licence??Uh, Justin and Clay have quite a lot of experience in the 'cameras strapped to butts' dept, ask them... Back to the topic though - it is probably a good idea. Here in the UK you need 200 jumps and CCI (DZO) permission before you can strap on a camera (to your head, Justin, to your head). Apart from jump numbers I don't know how you could regulate this. Also, you might be a good camera flyer but shit at editing videos, ie good camera flying doesn't necassarily equal good video. Also, would you have different camera licenses for the different disciplines, eg FS, tandems, AFF, photography?People will probably be very against any regulations, but then again if you look at some of the absolute shite videos that tandem luggage get ripped off with, maybe it isn't such a bad idea.Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #5 December 28, 2001 I think it is pretty much DZO's consent here in the US. And sometimes it seems awfully easy to get, if they even care.Ooh, big camera talk from Skreamer, whose idea of "geeking for the camera" involves spreading his cheeks. JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #6 December 28, 2001 Of course for Clay's gerbil to geek the camera, you'd have to spread YOUR cheeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #7 December 28, 2001 [McCoy voice]Damnit, Jim, the gerbil is dead![/McCoy voice] JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygeek 0 #8 December 28, 2001 I belive It should be up to the jm on the jump ,weither it be an aff or a tandem, They are the ones that have the real problem and have to deal with the crappy camera flyers getting in the way.How bout check out dives for vid geeks? works for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kizzie92 0 #9 December 28, 2001 I belive It should be up to the jm on the jump ,weither it be an aff or a tandem, They are the ones that have the real problem and have to deal with the crappy camera flyers getting in the way.How bout check out dives for vid geeks? works for me------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Agreed! This is how it should work IMHO.....However, it doesn't which is why I raise the evil spectre of ratings for vid fliers. I know that this would be like way unpopular but if the DZ's and JM's can't be trusted to regulate themselves then what can you do.Ok! Creating vid training and ratings may be taking things a bit far. Perhaps the BSR's should state a minimum jump number requirement for pro vid fliers and maybe some kind of endorsement to go with it.:0) TonySometimes I see a small speck in the sky, a human being that was given to fly - Pearl Jam! Yeah man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #10 December 28, 2001 Maybe not a special rating but associating it with the D License might be a good start. Then, if further regulation is needed then we could go further. There is certainly a lot to know not only in personal safety jumping camera gear but also safety for the subject too. Hopefully the new camera flier will be well versed in these areas when beginning their vidiot life. I tried to suggest that jump pilots should have a special endorsement or rating for flying jumpers and got jumped all over (on wreck dot). I would imagine that you would find certain resistance to making it an outright seperate license for jumping camera.Should it be a license? I respectfully say NO. I don't think it needs to be a seperate license at this time. We have too much trouble with the ISP right now to try and create something new for video people.Chris SchindlerD-19012never have jumped a camerahttp://www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #11 December 28, 2001 I am a camera flier and would like to see some kind of requirements. I think it would be safer for everyone. It is a hard decision laying down what the exact requirements should be. I think every new camera flier should work with an experienced camera flier for a while before the are turned lose to film students.William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #12 December 28, 2001 At our DZ there are some requirements to be video flier. I think for AFF the requirements are not that tough, but to video tandems you need 500 jumps. Ultimately it is up to the JM. Like if you have a video flyer always climbing down your drouge on exit you might not wanna jump with that person. I support ratings for video flyers, but occasionaly you get people that are way ahead of the power curve and you just gotta bend the rules let em fly.................Man I am thirsty for some air and some brew.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 December 28, 2001 I don't think there should be an actual rating, but just a rule of thumb that is consistant throughout the US. Although, the self regulation at different DZs wouldn't work and I know that. As of now you can pretty much just about anything you want at a DZ aslong as it doesn't break any rules in the SIM too badly and the DZO/DZM don't care. That's good and bad all in the same thought...As for camera jumpers, I think a C license would be a good start as a rule of thumb. Not to go start filming tandems and stuff, but to just strap one on your head and go film your friends and stuff.I've yet to actually fly camera, but I want to. I know my skill level should be up to it when the time comes since it appears that time is a long time away because all of that stuff is so damn expensive. AggieDave '02Too much of anything is bad, Too much burbon is just right.--MarkTwain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #14 December 28, 2001 Yeah I just remembered. You need about 100 video jumps to do videos of AFF.And I think that the Tandem requirements are manufacturer recomended(aren't they?). At our DZ we got Eclipse Tandems Rigs (500 jumps minimum) and Vectors (I don't know what the requirement is)Seb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #15 December 28, 2001 As an aspiring vidiot myself I have to say a rating is a bad idea. It would be nice to see some professional courses offered. Although, I'm one of those people that is dead set against paying extra for anything in this sport!! LOL IE Cheap Bastard...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #16 December 28, 2001 Video people do not need ratings, but they do need to be tested on their flying and Spotting somehow. Can't tell you how many times i have crawled out of the plane looked down with my tandem student and smiled at the video flyer as I crawled back inside for a go around. And all joking aside if I see a video flyer dump in my face right after I pull the drouge release.........ah man....that's all bad. There should be some sort competency quiz.I think we call em "vidiots" instead of "video geeks"Man I'm thirsty for some air and some brew.........Seb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
