quade 4 #26 December 28, 2001 QuoteDamn, I feel OLD!You're only as old as the one you feel.Paulhttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #27 December 28, 2001 so then we should always feel someone younger than ourselves? Cool..... come here you sweet young thang!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #28 December 28, 2001 QuoteGet to work!!! Or we'll dispatch Sis over there to "motivate" you....As cool as that would be.....Anns sitting right next to me......and that works for me! http://www.cyberskydive.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFKING 4 #29 December 28, 2001 And another DZ.commer......my B# finally got in there too.Btw Lisa......great letter. Well-informed, and very well written, also. Now the whole world knows of your "canopy-Nazism" ! Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiventom 0 #30 December 28, 2001 Dammmit... I'm afraid I'm fall'n apart... Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #31 December 28, 2001 Thanks Don! Actually I mentioned my "title" in the letter but for some reason they cut that part out....pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pyke 0 #32 December 28, 2001 Here I am, sitting on my couch cripple and everything...and nobody has noticed that I am in the Rising Fallers for December!!!!!!!That's right...the only C licence issued in GA. They didn't use my "common" name, but that is me alright....then I had to go and be a dick and break my bloody leg...oh well, looks like my D rising faller will be a little longer in the making!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke The Kiwi Lesbian!!!USPA C- 31879 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #33 December 28, 2001 Oh....Lisa...It's sad to see but your Canopy Nazi Theory was well proven in the incident reports. What the hell was a guy with 70 jumps doing on a Stiletto at 1.3:1 loading. That was just dumb and unfortunately it killed the guy....... "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #34 December 28, 2001 QuoteYeah... but mine was just a letter... pull and flare,lisaI am loving you, Lisa.My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #35 December 29, 2001 Hey Clay,Did you read the whole report??? That was one of the more comprehensive reports that I have ever seen in Parachutist. That very unfortunate fatality was caused by a SERIES of mistakes and errors in judgements, but at the top of the list was a loss of altitude awareness. A very low deployment left too little time to deal with the malfunction, and the cutaway and reserve deployment were also too low for the reserve to inflate. Perhaps the outcome may have been different with a larger more docile canopy, but we will never know. Any canopy would have opened in a twist or spin (less violent, to be sure) if one toggle had come loose, and with so little time to deal with the malfunction, its impossible to say what might have happened. I don't disagree with the conclusions from the incident report, just your interpretation of them. An elliptycal canopy at that wing loading made the malfunction worse, but the canopy didn't kill him, and the malfunction didn't kill him. Losing altitude awareness did. I thought Lisa's letter was great and made lots of sense, but even Lisa (the canopy nazi) acknowledges that some dzs are training students on high performance canopies, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Just my .02maura Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #36 December 29, 2001 QuoteAn elliptycal canopy at that wing loading made the malfunction worse, but the canopy didn't kill him, and the malfunction didn't kill him. Losing altitude awareness did. True, lack of altitude awareness killed him, but had the chain been broken by flying a less aggressive canopy at his experience level in the first place, he'd likely still be with us. Loaded Stilettos spin up fast, spinning Stilettos lose altitude very fast; lightly loaded Sabre2's, Spectres, Tris, Safires, Hornets, etc. twist up, but the twists are generally kick-out-able and the spin doesn't lose altitude nearly as quickly. To me, this incident proves my point. Any canopy that is sensitive to body position on deployment, has a very fast turn rate and a very fast dive rate and is known for violent malfunctions and high-g spins is NOT the canopy for someone with under AT LEAST a couple hundred jumps. It's not just the landings!Quoteeven Lisa (the canopy nazi) acknowledges that some dzs are training students on high performance canopies, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.But... I wasn't referring to Stilettos for students or novices... ony zp instead of F111. pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MiataDRM 0 #37 December 29, 2001 Pyke...Congrat's your C license. Hope your leg heals soon. Hey, if I can kick this head cold by tomorrow, I might be able to jump for you! Hey, GREAT idea!**I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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PLFKING 4 #29 December 28, 2001 And another DZ.commer......my B# finally got in there too.Btw Lisa......great letter. Well-informed, and very well written, also. Now the whole world knows of your "canopy-Nazism" ! Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiventom 0 #30 December 28, 2001 Dammmit... I'm afraid I'm fall'n apart... Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #31 December 28, 2001 Thanks Don! Actually I mentioned my "title" in the letter but for some reason they cut that part out....pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyke 0 #32 December 28, 2001 Here I am, sitting on my couch cripple and everything...and nobody has noticed that I am in the Rising Fallers for December!!!!!!!That's right...the only C licence issued in GA. They didn't use my "common" name, but that is me alright....then I had to go and be a dick and break my bloody leg...oh well, looks like my D rising faller will be a little longer in the making!!!Kahurangi e Mahearangi,Pyke The Kiwi Lesbian!!!USPA C- 31879 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #33 December 28, 2001 Oh....Lisa...It's sad to see but your Canopy Nazi Theory was well proven in the incident reports. What the hell was a guy with 70 jumps doing on a Stiletto at 1.3:1 loading. That was just dumb and unfortunately it killed the guy....... "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #34 December 28, 2001 QuoteYeah... but mine was just a letter... pull and flare,lisaI am loving you, Lisa.My webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #35 December 29, 2001 Hey Clay,Did you read the whole report??? That was one of the more comprehensive reports that I have ever seen in Parachutist. That very unfortunate fatality was caused by a SERIES of mistakes and errors in judgements, but at the top of the list was a loss of altitude awareness. A very low deployment left too little time to deal with the malfunction, and the cutaway and reserve deployment were also too low for the reserve to inflate. Perhaps the outcome may have been different with a larger more docile canopy, but we will never know. Any canopy would have opened in a twist or spin (less violent, to be sure) if one toggle had come loose, and with so little time to deal with the malfunction, its impossible to say what might have happened. I don't disagree with the conclusions from the incident report, just your interpretation of them. An elliptycal canopy at that wing loading made the malfunction worse, but the canopy didn't kill him, and the malfunction didn't kill him. Losing altitude awareness did. I thought Lisa's letter was great and made lots of sense, but even Lisa (the canopy nazi) acknowledges that some dzs are training students on high performance canopies, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. Just my .02maura Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #36 December 29, 2001 QuoteAn elliptycal canopy at that wing loading made the malfunction worse, but the canopy didn't kill him, and the malfunction didn't kill him. Losing altitude awareness did. True, lack of altitude awareness killed him, but had the chain been broken by flying a less aggressive canopy at his experience level in the first place, he'd likely still be with us. Loaded Stilettos spin up fast, spinning Stilettos lose altitude very fast; lightly loaded Sabre2's, Spectres, Tris, Safires, Hornets, etc. twist up, but the twists are generally kick-out-able and the spin doesn't lose altitude nearly as quickly. To me, this incident proves my point. Any canopy that is sensitive to body position on deployment, has a very fast turn rate and a very fast dive rate and is known for violent malfunctions and high-g spins is NOT the canopy for someone with under AT LEAST a couple hundred jumps. It's not just the landings!Quoteeven Lisa (the canopy nazi) acknowledges that some dzs are training students on high performance canopies, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.But... I wasn't referring to Stilettos for students or novices... ony zp instead of F111. pull and flare,lisa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiataDRM 0 #37 December 29, 2001 Pyke...Congrat's your C license. Hope your leg heals soon. Hey, if I can kick this head cold by tomorrow, I might be able to jump for you! Hey, GREAT idea!**I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
