Jump run Speed??

[OmriMon 0]

hey guys, i'm wondering at what speeds does your plane fly on jump run?
we r always having argues with our pilot cuz he never give a decent cut, i had a chance to look at the speedometer, on the ride up our speed is 80 kts or mph i'm not sure and when we're on jump run it's a good thing if he even slow down to 70!
he says the plane will stall if he will go any slower, is it true?
ps.
we fly a cessna 206
"The longer you freefly - The longer your beard is"

[Stacy 0]

i'm not exactlys sure what normal speed is, I am pretty sure that for competition loads they cut to 90 knots on jump run
Stacy
http://users.snip.net/~stacy

[QuickDraw 0]

tbh i would not be suprised if a plane full of skydivers would stall at that speed ..but what do i know :)

[diverdriver 7]

Different planes need different speeds on jump run. It may also be that you don't want this pilot flying any slower. Their skill might not be up to controlling it any slower.
But to answer your question. Yes, it can be flown slower under certain conditions. So, don't run back to him saying well this other pilot says it can be done and then get your load into trouble.
You can check out my website at http://www.DiverDriver.com and I have a section I wrote about flying the 206 with jumpers. This may be of assistance. But again, if he doesn't feel comfortable going that slow then don't force it. It may cause more trouble that will be regretted later when the plane does stall on jump run and causes damage.
Chris Schindler
D-19012
ATP/CFII
http://www.diverdriver.com

[billvon 3,151]

A lot of issues here.
The first is mph vs kts. 1 knot equals 1.15mph, so 60kts is about 70mph.
Second is prop blast vs airspeed. Most of what you feel in the door of a Cessna is prop blast. If you're climbing at full power at 70kts, you will feel more wind than if you're descending, with engine near idle, at 90kts - because most of what your feeling is the air the prop is throwing at you. If it's a problem, you might suggest that your pilot maintain the same airspeed at a lower power setting.
This is also the reason that something like an Otter may "feel" slower than a Cessna at the same speed - you are not as directly in the propblast when you're in the door.
Third is the stall issue. Every plane is different. Beechcraft and Skyvans are known for being stall-prone, while Cessnas and Otters are generally harder to stall. Weight in the back is the biggest issue, since many aircraft become unstable in pitch if the CG goes too far backwards. This isn't as big an issue in a non-cargo-door 206, since the CG doesn't usually get too far backwards during climbout. However, if a pilot accidentally stalls a 206 with people on the strut, recovery is going to be tough because the plane will both roll and yaw towards the side with the people on it.
-bill von

[flyhi 24]

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recovery is going to be tough because the plane will both roll and yaw towards the side with the people on it.

Do you mean the side the smart people use to be on? Gotta believe I would be out of there.
flyhi

[SpeedRacer 1]

anyone ever do a high speed exit? We had a CASA at our DZ once & for the sunset load the pilot cranked it up to 200 mph. On the advice from some of the more experienced, I tried a high speed exit track: You stand on the edge facing into the plane with your body in track position & just hop backwards into the sky & immediately start tracking. Supposedly the 200mph speed should give you some lift so that you fly like Superman for a few seconds.
But what happened was, I hopped back & I went flying back out of the plane like a ping pong ball & my visor flipped up just as I entered a, uh, uh, sorta, haze or mist. So Icouldn''t see what was going on & didn't know my ass from my elbow for about ten seconds.
Speed Racer
"My God! It's full of stars!"

[billvon 3,151]

>Do you mean the side the smart people use to be on? Gotta believe I would be out of there.
Don't count on being able to. History has shown that, if a plane stalls, it can be difficult to impossible to get out. A Cessna stalled about three years back, and the pilot and at least one jumper died when it went into an unrecoverable spin. You _know_ they were trying to get out, but couldn't in the 20-30 seconds they had. One jumper actually clung to the strut for a few seconds after the stall, for some reason.
That being said, it's almost always a good idea to try if you're near or in the door. (Naturally, if you're near the pilot in a Skyvan and you feel a sudden pitch-up, running backwards might actually be a bad idea, so it's not always advisable to try to get out.)
-bill von

[diverdriver 7]

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A Cessna stalled about three years back, and the pilot and at least one jumper died when it went into an unrecoverable spin.

I believe that was the 205 at Homestead you refer of. Static line student hung on strut as aircraft stalled. I'm sure the rest of the load got pinned on the ceiling and with CG that far out of wack was unrecoverable. The Cessna 205 that crashed in Celina, OH is said to have had a CG aft of the limit when the first jumper left the plane when the engine quit because they leave from the front of the aircraft. I don't have exact numbers for that. I'd have to refer back to the NTSB report.
Chris Schindler
D-19012
ATP/CFII
http://www.DiverDriver.com

[AggieDave 6]

SpeedRacer--I did the exact same thing out of a Casa at the AOT Memorial Boogie this year. A buddy and I tried to do the track thing with the plane going about 200mph on jump run. We both got knocked on our ass, it ripped the goggles off my face (some how I caught them...) and took me a second or two to recover and pull my goggles back on. Wow!
The pilot was also doing 0-G exits on that run, so it was a wild ride, mucho mucho fun. I went to a Grateful Dead Concert and they played for SEVEN hours. Great song. -- Fred Reuss

[PhreeZone 20]

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Third is the stall issue. Every plane is different. Beechcraft and Skyvans are known for being stall-prone, while Cessnas and Otters are generally harder to stall.

And don't let anyone tell you a Casa can't stall. Just ask the big way from Richmond a few years ago. Some how like 18 jumpers were on the GATE and held it long enough waiting on the divers to line up that the entire plane stalled, and then proceded to toss half the jumpers out and put the other half on the roof. There were jumpers being tossed out as the plane went into a flat spin. Scary Video! Paul was able to get the plane out of its Flat spin and the big way still built to like 15.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[AggieDave 6]

If I remember right, the CASA I jumped had signs every where say no more then 12 jumpers past this line and the line was about 3 feet forward from the tail gate...who knows, I do know we had 17 people back there for a 17 way on one dive, but nothing happened.
That would be freaky, though, plane stalling and going into a flat spin. Definately a jump that requires beer.
I went to a Grateful Dead Concert and they played for SEVEN hours. Great song. -- Fred Reuss

[PhreeZone 20]

The signs went up the day after the spin. and you can get 12 on the gate and another 8 between the wing and gate for exit. They had people hanging from the side of the door to get more people on the gate in Richmond.
As for the 17 way.... the divers better not have crowded the gate or else they were chancing a stall. There is no excuse for crowding the gate on bigways like that. I've been 14 out on a 17 way and was a 1/3 of the way down the benches and made it to the formation in my slot before 10000.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique