JDBoston 0 #26 January 8, 2002 Well, my 2 adopted sisters had parents who were in & out of jail and on & off drugs, spent 4 years in abusive foster homes before they came to live with us @ ages 11 & 7, and now are responsible, working, reasonably well adjusted people. Go figure. Not saying it was all my parents either - kids also vary widely in how intrinsically tough & resilient they are. On a different note, there are MANY people in ALL income brackets who should not be having children. I feel like this will always be the case. What we're seeing now (Columbine, this kid in Tampa) is in my opinion less a result of any aspect of contemporary child-raising than the fact that kids nowadays can get their hands on guns and planes, thus making it easier for the ones that are fucked up (intrinsically or because of their parents or both) to act out in BIG ways.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #27 January 8, 2002 phil does your daughter jump or just enjoy wheren rigs :-) Click Me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #28 January 8, 2002 hey fff where you liven nowdays?? Click Me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #29 January 8, 2002 Thanks everyone! You've all basically confirmed what I was thinking - raising kids is a crap shoot, all you can really do is let them know over and over that you love 'em and that they are valuable human beings, then hope and pray that they make it through the crap and come out the other side happy and reasonably well adjusted. I guess I just got lucky! pull and flare,lisa--life's a bitch.. and so am I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #30 January 8, 2002 reasonably well adjustedi resent that comment i am very well adjusted thank you :-) Click Me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #31 January 8, 2002 Quoteless a result of any aspect of contemporary child-raising than the fact that kids nowadays can get their hands on guns I Disagree.My entire life there have been no less then 30-some rifles, handguns and shotguns(my dad's a collector) unlocked in a closet in my house. With ammo. Not once did I EVER have a desire to shot anyone with one. Never did I have the desire to take one to school. Hell, I knew if I touched one without permission when I was younger, my ass would have been in a sling.My point is that it totally has to do with the parents and not with access to anything.Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #32 January 8, 2002 Dave,We've certainly had the gun control debate rage on these boards before. I'm generally on the opposite side as you, but I agree that parenting does play a larger role than the availability or scarcity of weapons and such.JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #33 January 8, 2002 Justin--We sure have had that debate one too many times here BOOBIES! Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMarshMan1 0 #34 January 8, 2002 "BOOBIES!"YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats it....no more depressing stuff! Blue skies and happy thoughts!,Marshall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Keith 0 #35 January 8, 2002 True enough it's tough to know what really went on in this kids head. One thing that always makes me wonder is, and I'm not saying this kid is because I have no knowlege of him, how when someone is alive people will talk trash and say what an ass he/she is, but once they're dead they were the greatest thing that ever walked on earth. It's like if you say bad things about the dead you'll be struck by lightning or something. You never hear people say what a good thing it is that so and so is gone because now we don't have to deal with that sorry s.o.b. anymore? Everyone living must be a saint?Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Phil 0 #36 January 8, 2002 phil does your daughter jump or just enjoy wheren rigs :-)________________________________________________she came up as a passanger and had to wear a pilote emergency chute which made her very proud as you can see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #37 January 8, 2002 Good point, Dave. Certainly I don't mean to totally discount the parents' roles (and I definitely don't mean to reopen the gun control debate...) My main point is just that there are a lot of things in the modern world (private planes, Internet, weapons of many kinds) that let people magnify the impact of their actions. People can cause harm that they wouldn't have the guts to cause otherwise, because they can act at a distance, not toe to toe with each one of the victims.So you take humans, a number of whom are always going to be fucked up for whatever reason (parents, psychology, fanaticism, etc.), and you get events like armed assaults on schools, planes into buildings, computer viruses causing $ billions of damage, that (unfortunately for us) don't spring from any extraordinary/rare/new qualities of the perpetrators, but instead from the means technology has made available to the marginal, messed up, & angry people who were always there. Hope that makes more sense.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chickenhawk420 0 #38 January 8, 2002 People do stoopid things, people with seemingly straight lives will be the ones who you can't turn your back on, friends turn to enemies, life deals shitty hands and people are left to do what ever they can to carry on the game. Seen people from "nice" backgronds turn out to be fucked up, I have friends from all sort of backgrounds (dysfunctional r us), so we smoke dope do some crazy shit (ok not the types to walk the line, been in some dubious shit) but they're some of the most dependable, creative poeple who i trust and love. We support each other, that with hard work means we're gonna go far. If i ever see a dog crashin i could never let them burn. Maybe its not mean't to make sense, i know though that there are people who try and emulate this- we do it coz its who we are, thats why we do it, coz we love it, the other types ain't going far. If you too love it then do it but i hate fuckers who do it just for the image of it, stop frontin.Lisa, sounds like you've got a son to be proud of. Im guessing hes seen you smoke, probably seen people smoke but hes choosen not to. Then theres those who smoke coz they've never been arround it and its like, "Wow, now i too can be another steroetype and rebel". When things are excluded, hidden and pushed into secrecy then it usually comes back arround and bites Just my 0.02$"Together we stand, divided we stand tall." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #39 January 8, 2002 I almost left this alone. I almost bit my tongue. Are you fucking kidding me? Where do you come from? I can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush. Don't give me this unfounded, well-that's-what-somebody-in-a-highranking-position-said shit.You want to know what kills? A lack of love, a lack of direction and a lack of awareness. This may be the direct result of the current need for two-income families in today's society. I think it's just great that women have integrated into the workplace (flame me at will). But, when there is a child, one parent (not saying it has to be one or the other) needs to be at home as the nurturer. Daycare doesn't cut it. TV is not a babysitter, as the internet is not either.Weapons. Everything is a weapon to someone who will use it is one. If one were so motivated one could take out eyes with a paperclip or remove a larnyx with a pencil. Motivation is the key word here. Aggiedave isn't motivated and with all the knowledge of using my immediate resources to my advantage, I am not either.Oh yeah, if you are volunteering to begin a crusade to remove firearms from society, visit my house first. Darwinians will be proud.mikeBlack then white are all I see, in my infancy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #40 January 8, 2002 QuoteI can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush....Everything is a weapon to someone who will use it is one. If one were so motivated one could take out eyes with a paperclip or remove a larnyx with a pencil.Heh, you need to sign on for a Jackie Chan movie with that kind of creativity. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #41 January 8, 2002 QuoteHeh, you need to sign on for a Jackie Chan movie with that kind of creativity. Or become a nerd like MacGuyver. JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheMarshMan1 0 #42 January 8, 2002 But seriously, he makes an excellent point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chickenhawk420 0 #43 January 8, 2002 Weapons, don't make me fuckn laugh. Ive got a punch powerful enough to kill, i have the knowledge of where to strike to score a critical hit. Remove the weapons? They are my hands (the same things that can be creative) what cut em off?What stops me from from kicking you to the jaw with just enough uplift flick to break your neck back- chop my legs off?Alternativley i could just buy a gat (i live in england and its still as easy as that). Prohibition don't work when will you learn stoopid, it isn't the weapons (if someone wants to do somethin the biggest hurdle is using brain to overcome obstacles), The only reason i haven't killed someone is not because of lack of weapons, or lack of balls simply i don't fuckin want to. What world you been living in? its all bout motivation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Phil 0 #44 January 8, 2002 Weapons, don't make me fuckn laugh. Ive got a punch powerful enough to kill, i have the knowledge of where to strike to score a critical hit. Remove the weapons? They are my hands (the same things that can be creative) _______________________________________________that why I have guns and rifles and what ever else to keep such killer machines like you at a safe distance!!! Only with my 357mag I feel safe. (don't worry I'm just full of it :-) ) I think the gun issue is not the point here but the problem with people flying planes into buildings and having Terrorists as models for real life. I mean I had a poster hanging in my room of Che Guevara when I was a Teenager and that would piss of my Dad. Did I go out and killed people that where rich and part of the establishment? Hell no. Took my Dog for long walks instead.The part where we can change something for the better is in our own home. If we don't feel like taking up the challenge then we don't have to be suprised, if something gets fucked up. Shit this sucks and we all know that it's not gonna change because apes learn better than we do.So let's go and enjoy our next jump and share all the great things that make us love life as it is.now should I jump with of without a cypres? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottbre 0 #45 January 8, 2002 QuoteI can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush....Is that an Oral-B or Advantage Reach? I have a sneaking suspicion that my current toothbrush may not be of a high enough caliber. "Can't keep my mind from the circling sky. Tongue-tied & twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #46 January 8, 2002 Hard bristles and a plastic handle is about all one would need.mikeBlack then white are all I see, in my infancy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chickenhawk420 0 #47 January 8, 2002 Killer machine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chickenhawk420 0 #48 January 8, 2002 Id go for aqua fresh brushes for the long lasting freshness. BTW Did you know you can lock pick yale locks using a lockgun in the form of an electric toothbrush, smallest allen key from a set, sticking material (welding, acrylic resins). It would take me three lines to exlain how and you ten minutes to make it (even the most untechnical person could)- you have alot more to worry about than just guns.Clay you've been abnormally quite, wats up with you? Asked your moms last night but she didn't know so i just got down to the ass slappin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #49 January 8, 2002 I think you misunderstood me. It should have been clear from the other examples I used (planes, the Internet) that I wasn't advocating prohibition of anything just because it can be used to do bad things. So rest easy, if I become President everyone's toothbrushes, .357 Magnums, paper clips, ninja death touches, etc. are all safe. My post was about how results are as much a factor of tools as they are of motivation. This is very different from asking what makes people motivated in the first place, which is the main problem everyone should worry about. On that, I also have plenty of opinions but in the main I pretty much agree with you.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #50 January 8, 2002 Just seemed like a little more rediculous conversation than usual.....So I stayed out of it....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Keith 0 #35 January 8, 2002 True enough it's tough to know what really went on in this kids head. One thing that always makes me wonder is, and I'm not saying this kid is because I have no knowlege of him, how when someone is alive people will talk trash and say what an ass he/she is, but once they're dead they were the greatest thing that ever walked on earth. It's like if you say bad things about the dead you'll be struck by lightning or something. You never hear people say what a good thing it is that so and so is gone because now we don't have to deal with that sorry s.o.b. anymore? Everyone living must be a saint?Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 0 #36 January 8, 2002 phil does your daughter jump or just enjoy wheren rigs :-)________________________________________________she came up as a passanger and had to wear a pilote emergency chute which made her very proud as you can see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #37 January 8, 2002 Good point, Dave. Certainly I don't mean to totally discount the parents' roles (and I definitely don't mean to reopen the gun control debate...) My main point is just that there are a lot of things in the modern world (private planes, Internet, weapons of many kinds) that let people magnify the impact of their actions. People can cause harm that they wouldn't have the guts to cause otherwise, because they can act at a distance, not toe to toe with each one of the victims.So you take humans, a number of whom are always going to be fucked up for whatever reason (parents, psychology, fanaticism, etc.), and you get events like armed assaults on schools, planes into buildings, computer viruses causing $ billions of damage, that (unfortunately for us) don't spring from any extraordinary/rare/new qualities of the perpetrators, but instead from the means technology has made available to the marginal, messed up, & angry people who were always there. Hope that makes more sense.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chickenhawk420 0 #38 January 8, 2002 People do stoopid things, people with seemingly straight lives will be the ones who you can't turn your back on, friends turn to enemies, life deals shitty hands and people are left to do what ever they can to carry on the game. Seen people from "nice" backgronds turn out to be fucked up, I have friends from all sort of backgrounds (dysfunctional r us), so we smoke dope do some crazy shit (ok not the types to walk the line, been in some dubious shit) but they're some of the most dependable, creative poeple who i trust and love. We support each other, that with hard work means we're gonna go far. If i ever see a dog crashin i could never let them burn. Maybe its not mean't to make sense, i know though that there are people who try and emulate this- we do it coz its who we are, thats why we do it, coz we love it, the other types ain't going far. If you too love it then do it but i hate fuckers who do it just for the image of it, stop frontin.Lisa, sounds like you've got a son to be proud of. Im guessing hes seen you smoke, probably seen people smoke but hes choosen not to. Then theres those who smoke coz they've never been arround it and its like, "Wow, now i too can be another steroetype and rebel". When things are excluded, hidden and pushed into secrecy then it usually comes back arround and bites Just my 0.02$"Together we stand, divided we stand tall." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #39 January 8, 2002 I almost left this alone. I almost bit my tongue. Are you fucking kidding me? Where do you come from? I can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush. Don't give me this unfounded, well-that's-what-somebody-in-a-highranking-position-said shit.You want to know what kills? A lack of love, a lack of direction and a lack of awareness. This may be the direct result of the current need for two-income families in today's society. I think it's just great that women have integrated into the workplace (flame me at will). But, when there is a child, one parent (not saying it has to be one or the other) needs to be at home as the nurturer. Daycare doesn't cut it. TV is not a babysitter, as the internet is not either.Weapons. Everything is a weapon to someone who will use it is one. If one were so motivated one could take out eyes with a paperclip or remove a larnyx with a pencil. Motivation is the key word here. Aggiedave isn't motivated and with all the knowledge of using my immediate resources to my advantage, I am not either.Oh yeah, if you are volunteering to begin a crusade to remove firearms from society, visit my house first. Darwinians will be proud.mikeBlack then white are all I see, in my infancy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #40 January 8, 2002 QuoteI can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush....Everything is a weapon to someone who will use it is one. If one were so motivated one could take out eyes with a paperclip or remove a larnyx with a pencil.Heh, you need to sign on for a Jackie Chan movie with that kind of creativity. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #41 January 8, 2002 QuoteHeh, you need to sign on for a Jackie Chan movie with that kind of creativity. Or become a nerd like MacGuyver. JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheMarshMan1 0 #42 January 8, 2002 But seriously, he makes an excellent point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chickenhawk420 0 #43 January 8, 2002 Weapons, don't make me fuckn laugh. Ive got a punch powerful enough to kill, i have the knowledge of where to strike to score a critical hit. Remove the weapons? They are my hands (the same things that can be creative) what cut em off?What stops me from from kicking you to the jaw with just enough uplift flick to break your neck back- chop my legs off?Alternativley i could just buy a gat (i live in england and its still as easy as that). Prohibition don't work when will you learn stoopid, it isn't the weapons (if someone wants to do somethin the biggest hurdle is using brain to overcome obstacles), The only reason i haven't killed someone is not because of lack of weapons, or lack of balls simply i don't fuckin want to. What world you been living in? its all bout motivation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil 0 #44 January 8, 2002 Weapons, don't make me fuckn laugh. Ive got a punch powerful enough to kill, i have the knowledge of where to strike to score a critical hit. Remove the weapons? They are my hands (the same things that can be creative) _______________________________________________that why I have guns and rifles and what ever else to keep such killer machines like you at a safe distance!!! Only with my 357mag I feel safe. (don't worry I'm just full of it :-) ) I think the gun issue is not the point here but the problem with people flying planes into buildings and having Terrorists as models for real life. I mean I had a poster hanging in my room of Che Guevara when I was a Teenager and that would piss of my Dad. Did I go out and killed people that where rich and part of the establishment? Hell no. Took my Dog for long walks instead.The part where we can change something for the better is in our own home. If we don't feel like taking up the challenge then we don't have to be suprised, if something gets fucked up. Shit this sucks and we all know that it's not gonna change because apes learn better than we do.So let's go and enjoy our next jump and share all the great things that make us love life as it is.now should I jump with of without a cypres? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #45 January 8, 2002 QuoteI can kill you and several others in a matter of about five minutes with a toothbrush....Is that an Oral-B or Advantage Reach? I have a sneaking suspicion that my current toothbrush may not be of a high enough caliber. "Can't keep my mind from the circling sky. Tongue-tied & twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #46 January 8, 2002 Hard bristles and a plastic handle is about all one would need.mikeBlack then white are all I see, in my infancy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chickenhawk420 0 #47 January 8, 2002 Killer machine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chickenhawk420 0 #48 January 8, 2002 Id go for aqua fresh brushes for the long lasting freshness. BTW Did you know you can lock pick yale locks using a lockgun in the form of an electric toothbrush, smallest allen key from a set, sticking material (welding, acrylic resins). It would take me three lines to exlain how and you ten minutes to make it (even the most untechnical person could)- you have alot more to worry about than just guns.Clay you've been abnormally quite, wats up with you? Asked your moms last night but she didn't know so i just got down to the ass slappin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #49 January 8, 2002 I think you misunderstood me. It should have been clear from the other examples I used (planes, the Internet) that I wasn't advocating prohibition of anything just because it can be used to do bad things. So rest easy, if I become President everyone's toothbrushes, .357 Magnums, paper clips, ninja death touches, etc. are all safe. My post was about how results are as much a factor of tools as they are of motivation. This is very different from asking what makes people motivated in the first place, which is the main problem everyone should worry about. On that, I also have plenty of opinions but in the main I pretty much agree with you.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #50 January 8, 2002 Just seemed like a little more rediculous conversation than usual.....So I stayed out of it....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
chickenhawk420 0 #48 January 8, 2002 Id go for aqua fresh brushes for the long lasting freshness. BTW Did you know you can lock pick yale locks using a lockgun in the form of an electric toothbrush, smallest allen key from a set, sticking material (welding, acrylic resins). It would take me three lines to exlain how and you ten minutes to make it (even the most untechnical person could)- you have alot more to worry about than just guns.Clay you've been abnormally quite, wats up with you? Asked your moms last night but she didn't know so i just got down to the ass slappin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #49 January 8, 2002 I think you misunderstood me. It should have been clear from the other examples I used (planes, the Internet) that I wasn't advocating prohibition of anything just because it can be used to do bad things. So rest easy, if I become President everyone's toothbrushes, .357 Magnums, paper clips, ninja death touches, etc. are all safe. My post was about how results are as much a factor of tools as they are of motivation. This is very different from asking what makes people motivated in the first place, which is the main problem everyone should worry about. On that, I also have plenty of opinions but in the main I pretty much agree with you.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #50 January 8, 2002 Just seemed like a little more rediculous conversation than usual.....So I stayed out of it....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
JDBoston 0 #49 January 8, 2002 I think you misunderstood me. It should have been clear from the other examples I used (planes, the Internet) that I wasn't advocating prohibition of anything just because it can be used to do bad things. So rest easy, if I become President everyone's toothbrushes, .357 Magnums, paper clips, ninja death touches, etc. are all safe. My post was about how results are as much a factor of tools as they are of motivation. This is very different from asking what makes people motivated in the first place, which is the main problem everyone should worry about. On that, I also have plenty of opinions but in the main I pretty much agree with you.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #50 January 8, 2002 Just seemed like a little more rediculous conversation than usual.....So I stayed out of it....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
