freeflir29 0 #26 January 28, 2002 Did someone say Boobies? "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #27 January 28, 2002 He did lose an engine for a while, but got it back and landed with 2. Hey, I'm no pilot, but I've never run out of gas in my car. If I had been on that load, I'd have been REALLY pissed. It's dangerous and foolish. But shit happens, I bet it doesn't happen again to that guy. I'm sure the lesson was learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #28 January 28, 2002 Aviatrr wrote: >>>>What's the big deal? You don't consider running out of gas in an airplane a big deal? I sure as hell do.. He may have handled it well AFTER he ran out, but he sure as hell did something wrong(and stupid) to get to that point to begin with.. Running out of fuel is totally unacceptable and inexcusable.. <<<<no, i don't consider running out of gas in a plane that big a deal. that is unless it's over the ocean or it's my plane. jump planes are usually not refueled after every load. they also do not usually carry alot of fuel as to keep the weight down and get everybody to altitude a little quicker. At some point jump planes run close to 'e'. paula listed a list of situations/events that may have help led to the gas problem on one of the otters (although i don't fully understand the relevence of full rw gear. body armor maybe). also emergency procedures for this are taught in flight school. i understand to some this may be a cause of concern. but it doesn't hardly warrant calling the faa, flaming, firing or kicking the pilot's ass as you suggest. if i'm not mistaken this pilot brought this only turbine from his dz leaving them with 182's so that another unaffialted dz could host an event that would be sure to draw jumpers away from his own dz. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #29 January 28, 2002 aviatrr wrote: >>>>Oh, and just to add one more thing......think about how big of a deal that would have been if he had run out of fuel at 400ft, right after takeoff with a full load.. He's already proven that his overall situational awareness is poor..<<<<good pilots don't take off with just enough fuel to get to 400 ft. good pilots know to put the nose down. good pilots already have an out planned. good pilots are experienced enough to handle this type of emergency. i sure it would be unnerving but probably not the end of the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #30 January 28, 2002 The pilot wasn't the owner of the plane, so he wasn't giving up his own earnings. The owner was at the dropzone and a little more than perturbed at what happened. I don't think a license should be yanked but I DO think that a serious talk and a reprimand are warranted. Running out of fuel is definitely something that SHOULD NOT happen when there's a fuel tank waiting for you every load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #31 January 28, 2002 trent wrote: >>>>The owner was at the dropzone and a little more than perturbed at what happened.<<<<i bet he was. his plane. ot: how do you quote text. can't figure it out and as you can see am manually doing it. thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #32 January 28, 2002 Hey guys,Not that I really know anything about the situation, but it appears that a serious lesson was learned without any loss of life or anyone getting hurt. If it ever happens again.......... well duh kick his ass! I am sure it was a learning experience for the jumpers as well. Wonder how many of them had ever been in an aircraft emergency. Plus think about all the beer that was owed ; ) "First time in a plane that ran out of gas?"SebBlue skies and freak flies................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #33 January 29, 2002 Quotealthough i don't fully understand the relevence of full rw gear. body armor maybeYeah I think she's talking weight vests.FYI the way to do the quotes is to put whatever you're quoting between [ quote ]Quoted Text Here.[ /quote ] tags. Just remove the spaces inside the brackets and it will work."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levin 0 #34 January 29, 2002 [FYI the way to do the quotes is to put whatever you're quoting between [ quote ]Quoted Text Here.[ /quote ] tags. Just remove the spaces inside the brackets and it will work.]thanks ted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #36 January 29, 2002 You didn't take the spaces out. The space after the bracket [ and before the q (or /) should be not there.Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #37 January 29, 2002 Actually the full set of tags that you can add are in the FAQ section.http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forums/faq_english.pl?Cat=#html"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #38 January 29, 2002 Thanks, Thanks...Thanks for using the URL tag Zennie when posting so we can click on it...j/k Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #39 January 29, 2002 QuoteThanks...Thanks for using the URL tag Boy aren't we needy today? I debated using it and decided against it. I thought the full URL would be more helpful. Guess I coulda used both. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #40 January 29, 2002 Hehehehehe...How's your Jedi flying?Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #41 January 29, 2002 Ok, I just got an email asking me to way in on this thread. Where do I start? Background: I was the Chief Pilot on the World Record 246-way in 1998. I flew the Lead Otter (following three Casa's) which was the base plane and I was responsible for spotting the loads.Now, since I wasn't there and only going on some of what has been posted here, IF the low fuel lights came on (the forward tank comes on at 75 lbs and the aft tank comes on at 110 lbs while in level flight) then you have roughly 15-20 minutes of useable fuel. By FARs you are required to cary fuel for the flight PLUS thirty (30) minutes. So if those lights come on you are already into your RESERVE fuel by 10-15 minutes in level cruise. But what are we doing here? We're on climb power at altitude. Fuel flow will be higher than normal cruise so if you're climbing when those lights come on your are really screwing the pooch. ESPECIALLY ON A FORMATION LOAD!Now, if even one of the engines flamed out during this whole ordeal I really question his attitude toward aircraft and jump operation safety. This IS a big deal. There are no excuses that can validate the decision to continue when a known low fuel situation was developing. My otter had all the fat boys with lead in spandex (shudder to think). I can think of no excuses for not having enough fuel on board for at least two passes and then landing with plenty of fuel afterwards. If you got stuck at altitude due to anything (line up, ATC, clouds, etc) and saw a low fuel situation developing well then it's a DAMN ABORT. You don't wait for an engine to flame out to make the decision for you.As for the Twin Otter fuel system: It's great when maintained according to airworthiness. I have found that the guages can be VERY accurate when calibrated by an A&P mechanic. Plus the low fuel lights aren't part of the typical guaging system. It is an INDEPENDANT system for redundancy. Remember, these planes were airliners not so long ago and still are in many places. The guaging system is very good when properly maintained. I think I've said my piece on this now.Chris SchindlerD-19012ATP/CFIIwww.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #42 January 29, 2002 thanks for weighing in on this Chris... IMO it is a huge deal, people not thinking it's a big deal should reconsider their position, the "so what, no one got hurt" argument is a little lame in this arena. It's the little things that add up to big things and it's the big things that can really really hurt. Be careful out there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #43 January 29, 2002 Quote This IS a big deal. There are no excuses that can validate the decision to continue when a known low fuel situation was developing. Chris: Yes, no one is disputing that it was a "big deal", it sucked, but.... when they validated the decision to abort the formation load, wasn't that the right decision and the proper "decision making"-for the pilots and the organizers? You have soooo much experience with formation loads, and yes, point well taken....make sure you have gas. But when they started to run low, they aborted. In skydiving, it's not just one thing, but a string of things. Im thinking they broke the string of "bad aura". I'll shut up now. Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #44 January 29, 2002 OK...Whassup with San Marcos?"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #45 January 29, 2002 Spacyland borrowed their otter and pilot to do 40 way this weekend. We sent them our cessna and Rabbit to fly it. Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #46 January 29, 2002 I was speaking more of safety problems. I don't want to bash anyone because I have never even jumped in Texas. ( I did sit in the Waller Otter once. I think it was Waller's) This is the second major safety incident I have heard about from there. Just sayin...Wassupp????"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #47 January 29, 2002 Well, I jumped at San Marcos this weekend and I can't say enough good things about this DZ. Great group, I felt totally safe and even one of their riggers pulled my ass out of a bind I got myself into while packing (it was weird, I didn't even ask for help, he was just like "hey, let me show you a neat trick for that..." but that was cool)Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #48 January 29, 2002 "Well, I jumped at San Marcos this weekend and I can't say enough good things about this DZ."and I keep hearing that too.......*shrug*"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #49 January 29, 2002 Quote This is the second major safety incident I have heard about from there. Just sayin...Wassupp???? From Waller or San Marcos? This happened at Spaceland. San Marcos had the accident with the formation load last year, but it was the (?) Kingair pilot flying out of formation. Not a gas or engine problem. Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #50 January 29, 2002 Okay, I wasn't there, never been there, I'm not a pilot and what I heard is secondhand by email from someone who was there... so I probably shouldn't post this at all but I just so love sticking my nose into things that are none of my business... What I heard is there is a possibility that there was a problem/issue with the gas cap. The pilot got the engine(s) restarted and landed fine, which leads me to believe there was at least some fuel left in the tanks... at least if airplane fuel tanks are anything like my car's gas tank...pull and flare,lisa--Life is tough, but I'm tougher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
