Future of our Sport... (My Rant)

[Opie 0]

Is it just me or has this thread been hijacked, I heard we should be on the lookout today. And Lisa your first post on this thread was right on.
Opie
If your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view!

[MarkM 0]

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No one is saying that instructors or jumpers with how ever many jumps are all knowing - no one knows everything there is to know about skydiving. What we're saying is there is a reason for the way most first jump courses are taught and there are reasons for the things that are taught to first jumpers.

I want to apologize if my posts last night came off like I was bashing instructors. I've always been impressed by how professional instructors are in this sport, every instructor I've had has taught me new things, I've never felt that an instructor was putting a student in a truly unsafe situation, but that doesn't mean I haven't disagreed with them sometimes.
Putting someone out of a plane for the first time is dangerous business, and instructors are trying to make the best of a lot of possible bad situations with someone they may have only first met a few hours earlier.

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Discussion and asking questions is a part of listening, btw.

But that's the point, I have less than 20 jumps therefore I "know nothing". There's nothing to discuss, so I just keep my mouth shut, try to listen to everyone, form my own opinions and watch my own butt.
When I see a new jumper exposed to a situation I wouldn't be comfortable in, I keep it to myself because I'm a low timer and I don't know jack.
Clay's tag illustrates that perfectly ""I only have 125 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay ". He don't know jack because he's a low timer. But when I asked about RSLs in freefall he presented a solid open opinion, probably the only clear one in the thread(because it devolved into the typical RSP debate), and gave me something to think about when I reach that level.

[Sebazz1 2]

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Sebazz's AFF program probably has students on BOC ripcord

Nope we train toss out. Nobody has said you don't know anything MarkM. I think some of us are trying to tell you that you need to keep an open mind and trust those that are qualified. There is "book smarts" and "street smarts". Nothing is more important than learning from experience, so keep an open mind even though you have your own opinions. Don't assume anything. One more point. DZ's have a responsibility to keep an eye on younger jumpers and students and absolutely have a right to expect those low time jumpers or students to preform the way the DZ wants them to. For example put a radio on you for your first 30 jumps.
Book smarts vs. Street smarts ??
Seb

[MarkM 0]

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I think some of us are trying to tell you that you need to keep an open mind and trust those that are qualified.

I understand. But my trust just doesn't go into doing something I already feel is unsafe(for me) unless I really know the people I'm dealing with.
For example I remember once hearing from someone/somewhere that if you're jumping gear you don't know(new main, new rig) you do a simple hop and pop on it first. That stuck in my head because it seemed like sound advice. On my second 10 sec delay an instructor was going up with another student for an exit where the student did heading control on the instructor. He'd drop me off at 4500 and then at 7500 both him and the student would do their thing. He was looking to buy a used rig from someone at the DZ so he borrowed it for that jump to test it out.
Mentally alarm bells went off for me, but naturally I'm not going to say anything because what do I know. I exit, hit the ground go in to the hanger and start hearing people outside screaming to cut away. The BOC pouch on that rig was loose. He didn't know it, ended up prematurely deploying on the track from the student, and was wrapped by the student's main and his.
If you were my AFF instructor I'd trust you to know tons of stuff I don't, and to know what's best for my safety more than I do. But I'll still call off our dive myself if there's something going on I'm not comfortable with.
I'm sorry if that makes me sound cocky or like a know it all.

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DZ's have a responsibility to keep an eye on younger jumpers and students and absolutely have a right to expect those low time jumpers or students to preform the way the DZ wants them to. For example put a radio on you for your first 30 jumps.

Also totally understand and have zero problem with things like that. I don't expect limits my mentors set to be flexible just because I may feel I can go beyond them. Those limits are in place for my safety. But at the same time the limits I set for myself are equally unflexible, I won't go beyond those because someone I don't know, but has a rating or some jumps, says I can or should.
Some may say that as a low timer I don't have the knowledge to set that second set of limits, but I don't see how I have any other choice.

[QuickDraw 0]

That,s what i was trying to suggest (i think)
If it's got tit's or wheel,s..it's trouble.

[Sebazz1 2]

Hey Mark are all the people that you hear some of these scary things from all instructors? I usually tell low time jumpers and students that when they're hanging out cruisin with the genral population that they will definately hear some f'ed up stuff even from experienced jumpers. Just keep an eye on which direction the info is coming from. Now dangit I gots to get some work doneI wonder what the normal people are doing this weekend?
Seb

[MarkM 0]

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Hey Mark are all the people that you hear some of these scary things from all instructors?

The student instructor wrap wasn't something I heard, I was on that load, was first to land and saw the instructor fighting the wrap down to 900 feet or so(DZO's estimate) from the ground.
I don't base my "cover your own ass" philosphy on stuff I've heard, just the stuff I've seen at different dropzones. Yeah, the rigger smoking a joint while packing a student main is still 100 times the packer I'll ever be, but that doesn't mean I'd want him doing my reserve when I get my own gear.
And no, I don't think that DZ was "bad". I think you'll see good things and bad things at any dropzone. IMHO you learn as much as you can as fast as you can and just try to jump with the good and avoid the bad. And when I say "bad", I mean "something that crosses a highly subjective and extremely personal fine line of safety".

[Sebazz1 2]

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rigger smoking a joint while packing a student main

Nice. I wonder if that causes cool kinda laid back openings..........J/K
Seb

[freefallfreak 0]

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I wonder if that causes cool kinda laid back openings..........J/K

Nope...and don't ask...lol.
TripleF
BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES...(Whoops, I said it again...Tee-hee...)

[MarkM 0]

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Nice. I wonder if that causes cool kinda laid back openings

What do you call that, a dude-pack?
Maybe pack in some chips in case you get the munchies on the canopy ride down?

[freeflir29 0]

"on the canopy ride down?"
Better put them in the reserve..........
"I only have 131 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[freebird 0]

Skydiving should be in the Olympics!
The longer you wait ........the more sense you get.

[hooked 0]

I agree, but how would it be organized. I mean what would the competition be, accuracy, skill, etc.????
J

[freebird 0]

Narrow it dowm. If the Olympics put snowborading in the Olympics to get the youth to watch more. Skydving would surely get attention from the younger population.
What about starting with freestyle skydiving only or sky surfing mabe canopy control competions?
The longer you wait ........the more sense you get.

[freefallfreak 0]

Dude,
Did somebody hijack this thread?? Tee-hee...
TripleF
BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES, BOOBIES...(Whoops, I said it again...Tee-hee...)