rgoper 0 #26 February 18, 2002 hook:i'm with ya all the way on this one brother. let's not forget the young gentlemen that is hospitilized right now fighting for his life. he was flying camera for a tendem, and i'm not sure, but i'd just bet he wasn't above a b license holder, and from what i know, shouldn't have been allowed to be in the situation he was, although having said that, the young man did 180, and riser himself into the ground, of course which he alone is responsable for. one thing this brings to light, FACILITIES AREN'T EVERYTHING. JMHO.......Take Care:Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #27 February 18, 2002 LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE UGLY NAKED GIRLS.........THEM....THEM....F.....THEMScotty -n- Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #28 February 18, 2002 "UGLY NAKED GIRLS"Gotta love em!!!! "I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #29 February 18, 2002 I totally forgot a bunch of us got called ugly........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #30 February 18, 2002 QuoteLET'S HEAR IT FOR THE UGLY NAKED GIRLS.........THEM....THEM....F.....THEMAnd to the virgins: THANKS FOR NOTHING!Seriously, I've only visited SDSL once and I had a great time, although thats not enough time to really get to know the DZ. I think I had a great time b/c of the great DZ.com people that were there. And of course b/c Scotty kept me full (not an easy task ). Sorry I can't make it to your going away party Scotty, I wish I could, but this weekend is killed due to Corps requirements all day Sat..."Alright, at 4500 lets break it, turn 360 and track away..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antimike 0 #31 February 18, 2002 I think you need to cool your jets Derek. whatever happened between you & Steve, I believe is between you and him and not really for discussion on this ng. For all of ya'all that don't know about skydive spaceland it is one of the safest best run DZ's I've been to. It is one first class operation. And for somebody to use this latest tragic accident as a slam against the dzo is in my opinion sick. Derek I think you need to let your personal issues UUUUHHH Personal. I've never had anything against you personally derek but this is a little overboard. How about everybody wishing scottie and tammi the best of luck in their new adventure and blue skies to them both! they will be missed but the only thing constant in life is change.Blue skiesmike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #32 February 18, 2002 Mike- why is how steve treated me and others and how he runs the DZ not open for discussion? I did not bring up, nor attribute the accident to ssl. These are not personal issues, they affect everyone that jumps at ssl. Everything I have said is true and things should be changed. I couldn't change them from the inside, but maybe if people know the story, things will change. If everyone does not know these things, it will never change. No one has claimed that I am wrong. Scotty and Tami are just the latest casualties. They are good people and didn't deserve to be treated this way.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #33 February 18, 2002 *Ding Ding Ding* That would be the end of round one. Boys to your corners please ....Kelli, get the cold beer ready, they're both gonna need one! Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #34 February 18, 2002 "Kelli, get the cold beer ready, they're both gonna need one!"Don't forget to pour a little down your shirt to keep the motivation levels up.... "I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #35 February 18, 2002 ding, ding, ding, Round TwoSo Mike, which one of Dereks statements were not true?OpieIf your not on the edge, you can't enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #36 February 18, 2002 From the outside Skydive Spaceland is a great DZ.. We are getting the shimmy on the inside.. I ALWAYS want the shimmy from the inside. That is the true colors of a DZ.. I've known Scotty and Tam for a while and SOMETHING must be wrong for them to be leaving.. Especially considering the fact that they were planning on opening Carbonezone resteraunt across the street from spl.. I for one like to know the inside scoop.. Little things like aircraft maint records and who is doing the maint is VERY important to me. Me personally, I liked the DZ.. All things considered it was the best run I've seen.. From an "outsiders" point of view.. The insiders point of view never hurts.RhinoBlue Skies and Smooth Rides!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebird 0 #37 February 18, 2002 What accident happened at ssl?The longer you wait ........the more sense you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #38 February 18, 2002 A Jumper hit the prop of another airplane in freefall. Was fatality wounded. The NTSB/FAA report is on http://www.diverdriver.com under the incidents section.Here is the direct link to the NTSB report... http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010601X01046&key=1Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #39 February 18, 2002 the prop strike accident was at San Marcos. ssl had a jumper hook turn in seriously injuring himself.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #40 February 18, 2002 QuoteA Jumper hit the prop of another airplane in freefall. No that was Skydive San Marcos.The accident being referred to is one about a week-and-a-half ago where a jumper executed a 180 front riser hook somehere in the 100-foot vicinity and hitthe ground in double-front risers. He was hurt very badly and is still in critical condition."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #41 February 18, 2002 Oops.... my fault. I got that one mixed up. I thought Fentress was SpacelandCause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #42 February 18, 2002 I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think DZ-bashing on this public forum is wholly inappropriate. There's no way we can know the facts; personal problems and animosity can color assessments, rumors become fact, etc. It's happened numerous times on here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #43 February 19, 2002 QuoteI think DZ-bashing on this public forum is wholly inappropriateIf it's bashing for bashing's sake I would agree.However, Hook has raised some very serious safety concerns.I'm trying really hard to stay out of this, because I consider Derek and Mike and many other people at Spaceland to be good friends. At the same time I can't in good conscience just stick my head in the sand either. If somebody is hurt or dies because of safety issues that nobody dared speak out about, I don't think I could live with myself.I would really like to hear SSL's side of things. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #44 February 19, 2002 What is the difference between DZ bashing and standing up and saying "Hey!, this isn't right!" ? If I know what is going on and do nothing and something happens, am I partially responsible? if you see something unsafe, but say nothing and that person is injured/killed and you could have at least tried, what does that make you? I don't have a personal vendenta, but if I don't stand up, who will?Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuickDraw 0 #45 February 19, 2002 I for one, as a n00bie depend on this sort of information.This sort of thing IF found to be true can only do the sport harm.If it's got tit's or wheel,s..it's trouble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #46 February 19, 2002 to know something, and DO NOTHING, or simply IGNORE a safety issue is negligence, no other proper word can be utilized. "divers" stand up, and be counted, or keep your mouths shut, and ignore safety, "it's all about living" the profound statement a divemaster made to me once....he was right. there is a difference between "DZ, And DZO bashing, personal vandettas" and the truth...........where will you go today? my hat is off to the gentleman that is standing on the truth.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antimike 0 #47 February 19, 2002 QuoteEverything I have said is trueDerek, first of all I want to tell you publicly that I respect you, your instructing ability, your flying ability, your swooping & canopy ability, and you as a person!! But like Jessica said, see what this is leading to. Now people are thinking that other incident happened at Spaceland, jeez. I know you've been around along time and worked at many diffrent dz's. Has there ever been one that has had no animosity between some staff and the DZO? It's the DZO's way they feed there family, its a job, employee and boss relationship. Personality or business decisions are disagreed on all across the business world. So most of your posts are PERSONAL OPINIONS:1st post " Rumor mill says it's because they don't fit the image he is trying to portray for SSL. Translation he dosen't need them anymore."Rumor is the key word there, translation is your personal OPINION No fact no truth!! 2nd post: "SSL is all about the $$$" Of Course SSL needs to make a profit. What business dosen't?? He has provided us a supreme DZ with expensive amenities. Does he try to make a profit with a disregard to safety? NO, As an experienced jumper there that is my opinion, I know of no accident there that has been caused by DZ unsafe practices. You posted in the same reply: " He probably found a way to make more $$$ of of food concessions" I think again, that is YOUR opinion. That I know factually is incorrect!I know nothing about the 300 lb student or your personal discussion about it. 3rd post: About gear pricing. How does pricing of gear come under any rules. If Walmart charges a dollar for an item and Kmart charges $1.50 what rule has been broken. I believe this is free enterprise. Remember buying gear from your DZ has it's advantages when your first starting. I have no info on what gear your qouting or what custom items it had. What he pays his riggers is his business. Remenber your DZ is a convenient place to get good advice and assembly from people you trust.4th post: I'm going to condense now) hoop doing maintence, I have no facts to disagree but I will say I feel very safe about that aircraft and especially it's pilot. The TDM I dosen't work there any longer. And what he charges his staff who works for him and maybe makes 100 fun jumps a year vs the prices for an 8 way team making 4 to 5 hundred jumps is the DZO's business and his negotiations between himself, the staff, and the teams he wants to attract. I wonder what Airspeed pays!!I don't know about the Cessna pilot, but I think you are mistaken!! Again SSL does not compromise safety for $$$.This will be the last post I make on this thread, but I hope I made my point to everybody reading, since this is a public forum, that most of Hooks (Derek's) posts were only an opinion brought forth from a digruntled Ex-employee!Nothing personal Derek I meant what I said at the begining of this post. I consider myself a very conservative jumper with a great regard for safety and aircraft maintenance and I would never jump at a DZ I considered unsafe. Ask anybody that knows me!!THIS THREAD NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!!!!Blue Skies Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #48 February 19, 2002 Facts:I worked there for 16 months, 7 days a week.I have watched a non- A & P mechanic perform maintenance on the otterHe did nothing to the TDM I for the tdm failing to completely hook up his passenger. We was fired months later, after being caught on the way to the door w/ all 4 connections made to his student.The Cessna pilot does not have a commercial rating and it is illegal for him to fly jumpers for hire, even if he is not being paid.There has been, on more than one occasion, more than 23 jumpers on board the otter. There are only 23 seat belts.Twice, the otter has had to either brake hard or veer to avoid a jumper landing on the runway. the jumper has the right of way.Steve claims to be an AFFI, he is not I have video of him doing AFFHe asked me to take an AFP lvl 2 student (Tim). I refused so I was told that I could no longer teach part time at ssl. And until a new instructor came out there, no other instructor would take him either. that was the last time I instructed out there.The tach on the cessna was diconneted for months to avoid clocking time so the 100 hour inspection wouldn't have to be done.The DZO told a tandem I to take a suicidal passenger or he would be firedI and another instructor were reprimanded for riding the otter down w/ 2 AFP students because we would not take a GPS spot w/ a solid cloud layer at 4,000ft. The DZO was upset because the he lost money and we would not take the GPS spot. he wanted the dz policy to be to exit w/ the students, regardless of cloudsThe DZ routinely drops through solid layers of cloudsThese are facts.Someone thinking a incident happened at spaceland that didn't had nothing to do w/ my posts, he thought fentress was spaceland.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #49 February 19, 2002 "I have watched a non- A & P mechanic perform maintenance on the otter"In all fairness you don't have to have an A&P to perform maintenance on an aircraft. As long as you are "supervised" by an apropriately rated mechanic it's all good. It is possible for a Private pilot to legally fly jumpers. As long as he is paying his "pro rata" share for the aircraft it is perfectly legal. I doubt that is happening but just pointing out what the FAR says....."I only have 133 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #50 February 19, 2002 There wasn't an A & P on the DZ, and if the jumpers are paying someone, the pilot has to have a commercial rating.Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
