jtval 0 #26 February 23, 2002 Quotethe richest, most heavily armed country in the world at war with one of the poorest, most poverty ridden countries oh yea i forgot to mention this...they ..um....took down the WTC? they seem to be at least worthy our of wrath!i fwe let them get awat with this how many others would try to get away with it? just a thoughtgetting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #27 February 23, 2002 Ahhhhh, the romantic life of a war correspondent...Right off the bat, I want you to know I am an editor of a national magazine. I have been in journalism for the last decade, both in uniform and out, in war and peace. I have been under fire in Africa as well as in a housing project in Virginia. I am empathetic toward Daniel Pearl, while the only feeling of compassion I have is for his wife and offspring.One crusty Marine Warrant Officer, who filed from Panama, Beruit and Somalia, once told me that to be a successful combat correspondent, you needed to be bulletproof. Mentally, you needed to believe you would live forever. Every single civilian journalist I have ever met, who has been in combat, has had this mentality. These guys and gals would rarely take cover under fire, had horrific tactical sense and often would put themselves into situations which would ultimately result in their demise. The motivation was not to tell Joe Sixpack back home what was going on, rather to get the money shots. It's all about the rewards--the fame, fortune and plaques to hang on the wall. These journalists take the shots and file their stories. The media machine confers from within, spins and spouts whatever bias they feel will make more eyes tune in (therefore more advertising dollars flow), and the ravenously vicarious public swallows it whole.Quote Last I checked, we are at WAR, which rougly translated means if you can't hang with the big dogs, STAY ON THE PORCH!! This statement is right on. Journalists are very rarely trained to be in the situations they volunteer to enter. They don't attend Gunsite, Blackwater or any other combat training center. They become absorbed in the hype and go try to make a name. Unfortunatly for Pearl, he made his name posthumously. His family will suffer for it. Quote In my opinion, there are ways to keep the public informed other than being in that situation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------So what is this method you profess to have ? The method (IMHO) -- MYOFB. As citizens, go about your freaking lives and let the military do it's job. Quote Ya, right ... the richest, most heavily armed country in the world at war with one of the poorest, most poverty ridden countries on the planet??? You had your TV turned off on 9/11 didn't you? Musta missed all that stuff going on. Yeah, we are just rolling over there and kicking some innocent heads in. This thread really reminds me of a little red and yellow sign on the wall of the JIB in Full Metal Jacket. It reads, "First to go. Last to know. We will defend to the end your right to be misinformed."mike"We are teenage quazimotos for the bells of hell and we are happy as pigs in shit because killing is our business and business is good. The Commandant of the Marine Corps has ordered you to Khe Sanh to get yourself some trigger time and pick up a few sea stories. but you are not even here to win the DFM, the Dumb Fucker's Medal. The only virtue of the stupid is they don't live long. The Lord giveth and the M-79 taketh away. There it is. Welcome to the world of zero slack." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #28 February 23, 2002 Right on man! I can tell you're an editor 'cause you used sum a' dem real big words. Agree completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #29 February 24, 2002 QuoteAs citizens, go about your freaking lives and let the military do it's job. Who the hell do you think the military works for??? THE CITIZENS! How government spends the citizens tax dollars IS the business of every single taxpayer. A military operating without an informed public is as dangerous as the enemy itself.And the country of Afghanistan didn't atack the WTC -- a group of terrorists hiding there, and in many other countries around the world, did. Remember -- the foreign policy of the American government -- screwing around in Afghanistan 20 years ago, not to help the people who live there, but rather to manipulate the region solely for the benefit of American interests, had lot's to do with how things have ended up.QuoteThis thread really reminds me of a little red and yellow sign on the wall of the JIB in Full Metal Jacket. It reads, "First to go. Last to know. We will defend to the end your right to be misinformed." Sounds like the brainwashing experiment is working... I find it amusing your are making reference to a movie -- entertainment for the masses, full of actors -- when we are talking about people losing their lives...My countrymen lost their lives in the WTC, tooQuoteThe media machine confers from within, spins and spouts whatever bias they feel will make more eyes tune in (therefore more advertising dollars flow), and the ravenously vicarious public swallows it whole.What - you don't have any advertising in YOUR magazine? Isn't that what pays YOUR mortgage?Anyway, I did not intend to show any disrespect for the men and women in uniform who are serving their countries... nor for those who have died in the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #30 February 24, 2002 QuoteDO NOT try to compare the bravery of a war time journalist making $100,000 to $200,000 a year or more.... LOL! ROTFL!!!ROTFLMFAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I will bet my left tit Mr. Pearl was making a whole huge fuck of a lot less than that, and he was a 12-year-veteran of one of the top newspapers in the country.Journalists don't make good money. They do the job because they're idealists.And that's all I have to say on this, except: If you think by honoring Daniel that means disrespect toward our military, then you've got a chip on your shoulder I don't want to deal with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #31 February 24, 2002 QuoteIf you think by honoring Daniel that means disrespect toward our military, then you've got a chip on your shoulder I don't want to deal with. I'm not really sure where this came from. I was responding to Iflyme's comments on the US attacking a poor, defenseless country. I don't know what Daniel Pearle was making but I'll guarantee it was more than our soldiers are making. And let's not even talk about Geraldo Rivera's salary........among others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #32 February 24, 2002 QuoteIn reply to:I'm not really sure where this came from. I was responding to Iflyme's comments on the US attacking a poor, defenseless country. I don't know what Daniel Pearle was making but I'll guarantee it was more than our soldiers are making. And let's not even talk about Geraldo Rivera's salaryi think she may have misinterpretted my post.Jess-i dont think or suggest that we should NOT honor daniel pearl.. i was just mentioning the military. no chip here but if there was i hope it would be BBQgetting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #33 February 24, 2002 Quote Who the hell do you think the military works for??? THE CITIZENS! How government spends the citizens tax dollars IS the business of every single taxpayer. First off, you are not a taxpayer of the United States of America, so you speak on behalf of a group of which you are not a member. Second, The media hasn't done decent war documentation since World War II. Sensationalization is what sells. During Vietnam, the media swayed and fueled public sentiment against the war through biased reporting. There were a couple bad eggs over there who were pissed as hell because they lost buddies to sapper women and children. They burn a few VC-supporting villages and then get tracked down by journalists, hot to make a name for themselves by exposing the evil military killing machine.Quote A military operating without an informed public is as dangerous as the enemy itself. The CIA and many other military operational forces have been getting around the media for years. It's called national security. If we wack some dictator because he is repressing the masses, do you really need to know? If we are making an amphibious landing on the coast of some third world nation, should CNN be there to capture Seal Team 6 emerging from the waves? Makes for great TV, but I would rather not endanger their mission or their lives for sake of my entertainment.Quote I find it amusing your are making reference to a movie... ahhh, yeah, a movie based in fact. Gustav Hasford, who wrote the book and the screenplay was a Marine Combat Correspondent in Vietnam during Tet. My buddy went to school with him and served over there with him. While yes, it was a movie, it was very well grounded in reality. Furthermore, I think it is an excellent remark on the propagandaists of both the military and civilian communities. And yes, toward the bottom of my post, I was trying to be somewhat amusing. Guess it was lost on ya.Quote you don't have any advertising in YOUR magazine? Yep, but it doesn't pay my salary. It's a little more complicated than that and that's all I'll say. The thing is, at least I am honest enough as a part of this community to admit what the hell goes on. I personally make every attempt to adhere to a high degree of journalistic integrity and ethics. I must also say that of all the big media outlets, the WSJ is one of my favorites for reporting from a predominantly unbiased point of view.Nonetheless, we may have to just agree to disagree on this subject. Nothing personal here. I am just pissed because I have to finish up some stories before I head out for Deland tonight. I should be on the road by now!!!mikeThe Lord giveth and the M-79 taketh away. Welcome to the world of zero slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #34 February 24, 2002 I feel for his wife 7 months pregnant,, actually I hate the friggin press,, no offense to anyone,, but in almost 20 years working EMS I've seem them bastards get in the fuckin way to change film in the back of an ambulance while people are dyin,, and then see what they put out on the news is so differant from what actually happened,, so I watch the news with a skeptical mind and don't buy the paper,, anyone know how many EMS folks died last year doing they're job helpin folks?? How many helo's augered in and ambulances wrecked... ok I'm biased there.. We don't make national headlines despite 9-11,, again I feel for his wife,, but like Tee's wondering about her baby,, ya pay the piper when ya take some risk,, or just get the fuck out and sell Avon or somethin,, so Frank,, how about the hockey game?? USA USA USA!! Can't wait ta watch that one!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #35 February 24, 2002 QuoteNonetheless, we may have to just agree to disagree on this subject.Yep. There's nothing more frustrating than arguing with people who refuse to see your point of view, yet we all seem to be addicted to it. Just a couple of thoughts: Geraldo is NOT a journalist. He's an embarassment to every single real journalist I know. And yeah, Danny Pearl probably made more than someone in the military. And if I ran the world, a soldier would make more than a journalist, and we'd both make more than Geraldo. But I don't run the world. However. People in the military choose to be in the military. Just like Danny Pearl chose to be in Pakistan. I take the point, and offer one of my own. The press is a supply and demand business. If people didn't want reports from war zones, then the money wouldn't be around to put reporters there. If people didn't want 24-hour CNN, it sure as hell wouldn't be on the air.My last point, then I'm gonna try to step out of this thread, 'cause it's really just disheartening: Y'all seem to think the media is made up a festering mass of self-glorifying, malicious assholes who set out to get as many things wrong as possible in their pursuit of the big bucks. Well, there are a few wormy apples in every barrel, but for the most part, that isn't the case. We've got people supporting families in this profession for less than your average schoolteacher makes, and they're doing it because they love it and they think it's important. The faces you see on the TV are just a tiny, visible percentage of journalism as a whole.It makes me sad that my posting a few thoughts about a fallen peer is seen as an invitation to attack the ethics of my profession. But y'all have your thoughts, and are free to have them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #36 February 24, 2002 maybe im reading it wrong here jess but bsides a couple of strong opinions i didnt really read any attacking here. we all have opinions and i think it is cool that we can share them here and still go to another post and talk to the same ppl about a whole new topic w/o carrying any angst to that post. we are ALL biased on our opinions. y know until i met skymedic i really never though of ems/emt workers and how important their jobs are. i thought about doint that before i joined the Air Force. but i dont see what they do for a living just like we dont see what eachother do everyday. the one thing we know about each other is that we are free; WE ARE SKYDIVERS!! and that makes us a family. and sometimes we just have to vioce our opinions. even though sometimes they may not be the most popular opinions to share. but we speak without fear of reprisal, without fear of being exiled from this websight or from our family. all-in-all i think this is a good thread. no major hostility different opinions that are strongly seated in each of us. but i think we all agree that everyone and everygroup in this post(among others not listed) deserve a "thank you" from all of usgetting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #37 February 24, 2002 OK Jess,,,Big Hugs!! I see your point,,, ya ya'll gotta make a living ,, I don't think all journalist go into the pro to get things wrong etc. and as far as Dan goes I guess he had bigger ball's than me to just be there,, if I ran the world there'd be no soldiers an Wingnut would be fixin jump planes not fighters,, my favorite gal on TV is a weather babe that came out and did a tandem jump last Summer,, I like ta see her on the tele,, my lill bro is a big wig at a TV station in phoenix and I know how hard ya'll work,, as far as worms in apples I feed them to my horses so they have there purpose too,, so it's all good...Jump Safe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #38 February 24, 2002 Ah JT, you're probably right. I just get ornery when journalists are accused of being in it for the glory when I'm sitting at work on a Saturday night fucking with stories while the rest of the city gets plastered on the River Walk. Billy -- thanx to you too. JT, show us your tattoo again -- that'll put me in a good mood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #39 February 24, 2002 Quotey know until i met skymedic i really never though of ems/emt workers and how important their jobs are.Off topic, but I was naieve enough to ask skymedic why he wore a bullet-proof vest. Then he told me about the time he got shot trying to peel someone off the sidewalk._Am (generally don't have reporters, but would hate to slag one in a thread memorialising a dead one)ICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #40 February 24, 2002 I have tried my damnedest to stay out of this thread, purely for personal reasons, but I can't stay away any longer...Yes, we need a free press to cover the military and keep things in check; however, there is a line that should not be crossed and too many times I've seen the media going where they should not go, risking national security and soldier's lives. The Marine's landing in the Gulf War comes to mind, where the Mareines get off their landing craft to a group of TV cameras with lights on. Honestly, the media should NOT have been there, they were putting the lives of Marines in jepordy. What would have happened if because of the media, if lets say 20 Marines died and one of the TV guys would have been shot? The media would have forgotten about the Marines and talked about that poor TV guy on and on. What comes to mind currently is that day before yesterday an Army helicopter went down, killing all 12 on board. 12 Americans lost thier lives being heros for their country. Did the media care? Well the very next day not a single bit of info was found on CNN's website, however, there was pages and pages of info about Pearle. Information that didn't matter, public responses about his death, etc. Should we mourn him, yes, should it dominate the news and be the focal point of every conversation between the "talking heads?" Hell NO! He knew exactly what he was getting into, if he didn't he was a fool. We were and are at war with Terror, he was in a country known for supporting Tangos, he should have known the risks. You don't go in the bear's cage without understanding that the bear could attack. Now, about the folks who were making snide remarks about the U.S. "bullying" the poor defensless Afgans...we are not at war with Afganistan, we are at war with Terror, i.e. bin Laden and his organizations. We are also fighting to bring down any country that supports terrorists. If you think terrorists and the countries that support them are fighting for a general good, you are an idiot. They are cowards, killing innocent people trying to make a political statement. Where I'm from, if you disagree with something or someone, you make your voice known, you don't go about killing people who have nothing to do with the issues at hand.Personally, I have had some very bad experiences with mass media (Aggie Bonfire) and more then once I was almost in a fist fight with a journalist. Freedom of speech is improtant, so is freedom of the press, that is one of the reasons that America has stayed as great of a nation as it is; however, when their "freedoms" begin to infringe on personal well being, physically and mentally or they begin to infringe on national security (which could very easily lead to the deaths of Americans and American military personal), then they are in the WRONG. "And who are you?""I'm...Batman..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #41 February 24, 2002 WELL PUT DAVE.hope you did lose anyone in the bonfire dude!jess--you can look at my tat anytime you want. getting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #42 February 24, 2002 Vest's are a beautifull thing......marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #43 February 24, 2002 i bet they are marc. did you get shot? or shot at? when i was younger we got shot at in my nieghborhood a few times.dangerous place but its still home!getting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #44 February 24, 2002 QuoteNonetheless, we may have to just agree to disagree on this subject. Nothing personal hereAgreed! That is the best thing about living in the West... we can have our own opinions, and defend them as we see fit! Let's go for beers now... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottbre 0 #45 February 25, 2002 QuoteIf people didn't want 24-hour CNN, it sure as hell wouldn't be on the air.*down on my knees in a position of prayer*Oh please God, make it so!"Let the rabbits wear glasses. . . " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #46 February 25, 2002 Quotehowever, there is a line that should not be crossed and too many times I've seen the media going where they should not go, risking national security and soldier's lives. The Marine's landing in the Gulf War comes to mind, where the Mareines get off their landing craft to a group of TV cameras with lights on. And how do you think these reporters knew where to be, that is an awful big coast, you think they had the whole beach covered, or do you think they were tipped off so they could whip up some patriotic support back home?Quotehe knew exactly what he was getting into, if he didn't he was a fool.And those soldiers who sooo very unfortunately died in that crash knew even better what they were getting into.I am not taking sides here, but the military and the press are both needed to resolve situations and make the world go round. It is the widespread worldwide public support, due to mass media extensively reporting on 9/11 that is allowing the US to have so much support in their fight against terrorism. It is that same public opinion that has increased the mighty dollar flow back into the military for a while. If I was in the us military I would be thanking the media right now.Anyways I had to thow in my 0.02. Please don't take this as an attack on you Dave, just used your post to reply on.PS, the day there is a foulproof judicial system, that is the day I will agree to the death penalty.......SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #47 February 25, 2002 QuoteI am not taking sides here No fair. No fence straddlin'. Pick a side! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #48 February 25, 2002 QuotePS, the day there is a foulproof judicial system, that is the day I will agree to the death penalty.......i don think we ever even tried to prosecute a bird..oh you mean foul as in erroneousgetting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #49 February 25, 2002 Quotei don think we ever even tried to prosecute a birdLet's start with pigeons. I hate pigeons. They crap all over everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #50 February 25, 2002 QuoteLet's start with pigeons. I hate pigeons. They crap all over everything. shithawks - I mean seagulls, too!Hey, I'm really disappointed that nobody said BOOBIES yet... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
