Magistr8 0 #1 March 17, 2002 I was watching the news last night and heard that Pres Bush is actively promoting christianty. I understand that he wants their votes next time election rolls around but is this really the best thing to be doing with the issues facing isreal and pakisan? I think this is just going to create more hate towards the US.Who ever said comming down from a high was bad obviously never tried this.Magistr8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #2 March 17, 2002 You have a specific reference?"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #3 March 17, 2002 Well, since his is obviously a strong Christian and believes in religion very strongly, I am not suprised at all. Whether it is a good idea or not, who knows. Nothing else seems to work over there that we do. Although, should we be over there?There will never be a thing that happens over there that pleases everyone.JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magistr8 0 #4 March 17, 2002 It is very bad to be promoitng it all over the states when right now the muslums seem to think that he is out to get them. From thier perspective I can very easily see them using this to further fuel their belief that this is now another reason to continue their jihad. ( holy war ). Bush is not a smart guy in my opinion and this is just added coal to the fire. He should keep his religious beliefs to himself.Who ever said comming down from a high was bad obviously never tried this.Magistr8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 March 17, 2002 QuoteYou have a specific reference?I did some searching and all I could find was this: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/16/bush.catholics/index.htmlBush marches with Irish-Americans in Chicago's St. Patty's day parade.If this is not what you're referring to then please correct me.-Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magistr8 0 #6 March 17, 2002 Actually no it isn't. On the 10 O cock news last night they were saying how bush was going around gathering support from catholics and actively promoting it. I guess the irish parade that he attended could be a branch of that but this was more out there with his messege. Again I feel that he should just think about the implications of waging war on a country that thinks this is a war on religion while at the same time preeching his own.Who ever said comming down from a high was bad obviously never tried this.Magistr8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 March 17, 2002 I hate Bush as much as anybody else, but I will give him credit for this: Bush has always put his relilgious agenda in the fram of religion in general, and not specific to catholocism.While he's obvious Christian, I've always seen him frame all of his religious comments in a very "implementation neutral" way. I've never heard him make any comments that say he favors one kind of religoin over another. Quite the opposite, he's always gone out of his way be inclusive in his religious comments._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
favaks 0 #8 March 17, 2002 > Well, since his is obviously a strong Christian and believes in religion very strongly, I am not suprised at all. Whether it is a good idea or not, who knows.It's a bad idea and it is also "unconstitutional". What ever happened to the separation of church and state. .favaks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #9 March 17, 2002 QuoteIt's a bad idea and it is also "unconstitutional". What ever happened to the separation of church and state. The relevant clause in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."Nothing in there about the President; it very specifically doesn't restrain the executive from endorsing or condemning a particular religion - but that's nitpicky wrangling. In the big picture, the meaning and application of the "Establishment Clause" has shifted dramatically in the past 210 years. The current jurisprudence basically requires the government to keep churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. on an equal footing with secular organizations. Religious organizations don't get special privileges that secular organizations can't have too, and religious organizations can't be restricted from activities/access that secular organizations are allowed.Cutting through the legalese: freedom OF religion doesn't mean freedom FROM religion.As for Bush's electioneering and Middle Eastern public opinion and press, well, they've got their views and the facts will be emphasized or ignored to fit them. It's a bias that operates on a conscious and subconscious level (and I'm definitely not saying the American or Western public opinion and media are bias-free). If Bush started making campaign stops at mosques and having Mollahs and Imams over for tea, I'm pretty sure the populace and media over there would just dismiss it as a farce. PTigerI'm stepping through the doorAnd I'm floating in a most peculiar way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 March 17, 2002 Favaks, President Bush has every right to express his feelings on his religion..and as Andy said I believe he has been more than open to all religions and very carefull NOT to put any others in a bad light.So according to you then all presidents should believe in NO god???marcBSBD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #11 March 17, 2002 >It's a bad idea and it is also "unconstitutional". What ever happened to the separation of church and state. . .Does not apply to one's beliefs. As president, he can say whatever he wants about religion. He can put statues of Christ in his office if he wants, give millions to his church, even give speeches about it if he wants. He just can't pass laws that favor one religion over the other.Freedom to worship however you choose (provided you don't break any laws, of course) is one of the most basic rights we have, one that applies to the president as well.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #12 March 18, 2002 amen!! In fact I seem to remember that Bush did some kind of Ramadan or other Muslim celebration at the White House in an effort to reach out to Islam & to show that we weren't against Islam. I didn't vote for him, but I don't see anything wrong with what he has done religion-wise, except for that faux pas about using the word "crusade" back in late September...but that was just a mistake of semantics.Speed Racer"Fill your hand, you son-of-a-bitch!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #13 March 18, 2002 I think I would be more concerned if there was a sudden cessation of all religious references following 9-11 and the current war. It would mean to me that the terrorist plan had struck the very heart of our way of life by making our President and leaders AFRAID of speaking of religion in public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magistr8 0 #14 March 18, 2002 Yes he has the right to belive in what he wants and can excersise his will to put up statues but he as the president holds more weight than you a crediting him for. Just him speaking on the subject will cause people that aren't catholic to feel like a minority. He is the most powerful man in the world at the end of the day and at the end of that day every one who hears him making these catholic rallies will hold more hatred towards him and in turn the US. He has the right to do what he is doing but is it what he should be doing? NoWho ever said comming down from a high was bad obviously never tried this.Magistr8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #15 March 18, 2002 QuoteHe is the most powerful man in the world at the end of the day Some would argue it's the women who is the most powerful and Hillary had put our country at great risk by denying certain privlages... (I'm joking, do not take seriously)"Give me one ping and one ping only..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyMissy 0 #16 March 18, 2002 QuoteJust him speaking on the subject will cause people that aren't catholic to feel like a minority.You got a problem with minorities?But seriously, chill out. If you don't like the guy, fine. But be careful about being a religion-NAZI. You sure come across as being narrow minded that way.I'm not the man they think I am at home, no;I'm a rocket man.Sky World Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magistr8 0 #17 March 18, 2002 Did I?OopsWho ever said comming down from a high was bad obviously never tried this.Magistr8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkeylady 0 #18 March 18, 2002 do i think he is prompting his religion, yes, but i think he is trying to tell everyone to go to there religion, to there god. if more people went by what there religion says then maybe we could have some peace in this world. i don't believe he was saying that one religion was better that another, he was just talking about his cause that is the one he knows, the one he lives by. it doesn't mean he doesn't support what other people believe. i think a lot more people need to lesson to him and go to their religion and start making peace and follow their religion and maybe things wouldn't be so bad in this world. it is time to stop the fighting in this world, and make peace. is it really going to achieve anything by killing everyone, no. nothing will be resolved. so maybe if everyone got in touch with there religious believes, and really found out who they are them may be all this fighting would stop. no religion is better then another, no person is better then another, we are all the same. so we may look different, talk different, worship differently, but don't we all bleed the same color blood, don't we all breathe the same air, and don't we all need food and water to live? so just because we have different religious believes doesn't make us any different then anyone else and maybe if we were all in touch with our own religious believes life as we know it would be much better for everyone. are we suppose to treat everyone the way that you would want to be treated. i know i want to be treated right and like a human. so i treat everyone i know or meet with the same respect. you get a lot more with honey then with vinigar. so i don't think bush is really saying anything bad about religion he is just talking about the one he knows best his own.blue skies for always Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #19 March 18, 2002 Quotetell everyone to go to there religionThere.They're.Their.Simple concept!(sorry, my pet peave)._AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #20 March 18, 2002 Freedom from religion!"Men weren't meant to rideWith clouds between their knees"Five For Fighting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #21 March 18, 2002 Quote(sorry, my pet peave).Peeve. PEEVE!(Sorry, that's one of mine. )No, it's not updated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #22 March 18, 2002 >Just him speaking on the subject will cause people that aren't catholic to feel like a minority.Oh please. That's like claiming his father should never have said that he didn't like broccoli. (or whatever vegetable he didn't like.) I would rather have an honest president who says what he believes, even if it makes broccoli growers feel bad, than a president who always says what will give maximum political benefit.If he's a good protestant, or whatever, and he talks about that, there's nothing wrong with that. If people don't like a protestant as president, we are free to get a different one in three years.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 20 #23 March 18, 2002 QuoteI am a democrat (note: he is not talking about the political party) because I believe that no man or group of men is good enough to be trusted with uncontrolled power over others. And the higher the pretensions of such power, the more dangerous I think it both to the rulers and to the subjects. Hence Theocracy is the worst of all governments. If we must have a tyrant a robber baron is far better than an inquisitor. The baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity at some point be sated; and since he dimly knows he is going wrong he may possibly repent. But the inquisitor who mistakes his own cruelty and lust of power and fear for the voice of Heaven will torment us infinitely because he torments us with the approval of his own conscience and his better impulses appear to him as temptations. And since Theocracy is the worst, the nearer any government approaches to Theocracy the worse it will be. A metaphysic, held by the rulers with the force of a religion, is a bad sign. It forbids them, like the inquisitor, to admit any grain of truth or good in their opponents, it abrogates the ordinary rules of morality, and it gives a seemingly high, super-personal sanction to all the very ordinary human passions by which, like other men, the rulers will frequently be actuated."--C. S. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #24 March 18, 2002 This thread could lead someone to believe that George W. Bush is a catholic. He is not. He is a methodist.Also, it may have already been said, but this country was founded by christians on a set of christian moralities.Here's some ways God was interjected into our country's fibers in the last few hundred years:"...the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..." -- Within the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence."I have lived a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see that God governs the affairs of men. We have been assured of that in the sacred writing as it writes: "Except the LORD build the house, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe that. And I also believe that, without God's aid, we should not proceed in our political building." -- Ben Franklin - 1787"In God We Trust" -- Motto placed on coins during the Civil War."...One nation, under God..." The Pledge of Allegiance. In June of 1954 an amendment was made to add the words "under God". Then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of reigious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." Disclaimer: I am not a christian, yet I don't care if our President wore a 6" cross around his neck or star of david earrings. If he started his speeches with "Shalom" or ended them with "Go with God," I wouldn't give two craps in the firey pits of hades. Just as long as he doesn't tell me I am wrong for my beliefs, I could care less.mikeThe Lord giveth and the M-79 taketh away. Welcome to the world of zero slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #25 March 18, 2002 QuoteThis thread could lead someone to believe that George W. Bush is a catholic. He is not. He is a methodistAre you sure? I thought his dad George Sr. was an Episcopalian(sp?) But that wouldn't make a diff would it? It's oh so confusing. I gonna continue to pray to the sky gods"I know I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing" -- socrates Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites