product warrenty

[highspeeddirt 0]

can anyone tell me if there are actually any warranties on skydiving equipment?

[Bluhdow 31]

It's void if you get blood on it.

Apex BASE
#1816

[gowlerk 2,275]

highspeeddirt

can anyone tell me if there are actually any warranties on skydiving equipment?

Airtec warranties the Cypres for 12 years. But they reserve the right to take up to four years to honor it.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Andy9o8 2]

Full refund if you buy the farm; but to collect your dough you have to physically sign for it in person.

I drafted that one myself. Rather proud of it.

[highspeeddirt 0]

i should have known better than to expect a serious answer on this website

[airtwardo 7]

highspeeddirt

can anyone tell me if there are actually any warranties on skydiving equipment?

It depends on the piece of equipment & the manufacturer.

Seems like people are having relatively good luck getting service or replacement on the electronic gizmos - but that's kinda to be expected for mass produced over priced non custom hardware.

For canopies & containers the warranty seems to be 'limited' at best.

If you were to find a substantial defect in the construction, I can't think of any manufacturer that wouldn't correct that - and if there is ever an AD on it, they usually take care of addressing those corrective measures as well - either free or at a greatly reduced cost - depending on what it is.

However, keep in mind that pretty much anything nylon in your gear bag is handmade & labor intensive. Unlike at Wal Mart, if after using it a bit - you don't like the color or the smell, oh well.

As far as something ripping, tearing, discoloring or whatever...in this highly dynamic environment - shit happens -

The manufacturer doesn't know how you're using the product and if that affected the problem...so they usually don't replace or repair items used, but not holding up to the buyers expectations.

Case in point - I had a canopy experience a top skin tear nose to tail on the 3rd jump since new...the manufacturer 'inspected' it telling me probable packing error.

I know that it wasn't, I packed it...and did so the exact same way I pack an identical canopy from the same manufacturer...

But what are ya gonna do - I paid 550.00 to get it repaired.

Wasn't until I'd learned through the grapevine several others had similar problems with major tears on canopies with very low jumps - we figured out a bunch made it past inspection with WAY too many stitches per inch (IMO) - others with less stitching weren't tearing...but how many is too many is rather subjective. Didn't get a refund but did get the cost of the repair taken off the next canopy I bought from them.

Dicey deal - I think they HAD to know the problem once they saw the canopy & repaired it - but I also understand the profit on those isn't sky high, and ya gotta do what ya gotta do to stay afloat.

I chalked it up to buyer beware & use a different manufacturer now.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Andy9o8 2]

Mea culpa. My vice is that I have trouble resisting straight lines.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

For canopies & containers the warranty seems to be 'limited' at best.

If you were to find a substantial defect in the construction, I can't think of any manufacturer that wouldn't correct that - and if there is ever an AD on it, they usually take care of addressing those corrective measures as well - either free or at a greatly reduced cost - depending on what it is.

Yep, they're typically not spelled out, but this is a small sport, small market, and people talk.

As an example, I bought a brand-new main from PD a few years ago. After only a couple months and about 40 jumps, the slider developed a tear - pretty obviously a manufacturing defect with that little wear on the setup. Contacted PD and they had a new on one the way, no charge, right away. The general consensus around the DZ was "PD should make that right" and, without question, they did.

Now, if I showed up now (6 years and several hundred jumps on that canopy later) and said "Hey, my slider's got a tear" they'd probably say "That's nice, you could have your local rigger fix it, or send it to us and we'll repair it for $X, or would you like to order a new one - they cost $Y?" And that would be the right response, too.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Remster 30]

Warranty is pretty much non-existent in the sport. Considering the liability, I can understand that ("my daughter fell from 13,000ft on a malfunctioning parashoot still under warranty! I'm suing!").

Now, customer service and how they deal with a problem with an item will vary widely between brands: some will replace for free; some will repair or replace at a very low cost; some will ignore your contact attempts. and all points in between.

Remster

[evan85 0]

Andy9o8

Full refund if you buy the farm; but to collect your dough you have to physically sign for it in person.

I drafted that one myself. Rather proud of it.

I'm going to have to keep that one in mind next time I'm drafting such a provision...

[jimjumper 25]

Years ago, when the acid mesh problem became known, I know of at least 2 companies that just walked way from the sport market altogether. I have an orphaned 28' National Phantom out in the shed that makes good rigger training but I wouldn't jump it. GQ Security just closed their U.S. facility and went back to Europe. If it's a sport-wide problem that can only be fixed by replacing the item your probably out of luck.

[diablopilot 2]

There is only one guarantee in skydiving.

You will land.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 4]

highspeeddirt

i should have known better than to expect a serious answer on this website

You get out of it what you put into it. At least you could do is name what piece of equipment you are talking about.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pchapman 279]

Short answer:

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Long answer:

I do see some serious responses in this thread.

What do you want?
Sometimes it is hard to know about particular equipment until you buy it, but some things are found in manuals. E.g.,

Cypres 2:

Quote

Airtec GmbH & Co. KG provides a 2 year warranty
on all CYPRES models and parts within. In
spite of that Airtec has always repaired all defects
during the entire service life of each CYPRES
free of charge, except for damages done intentionally,
due to negligent, or use without the required
maintenance.

[With the caveat, as someone mentioned, that they won't immediately update the unit for less-than-major issues if it would mean their factory would get swamped with returns all at once.]

L&B Protrack:

Quote

Damage or defects in the unit within 12 months after delivery that are proven to be
caused by faulty manufacture will be repaired at no cost to the end user.
Repairs performed under this warranty will not extend the warranty period.

Paragear has a giant warning label in effect filling the inside front cover of their catalogue. They do have a 60 day warranty, and actually do seem to cover merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, but limiting their liability to replacement or repair, and without shipping costs. Some of their warning & warranty information is the following:

Quote

PARA-GEAR Equipment Company Inc., warrants all products in this catalog to be free of defects in material and workmanship and will, within 60 days from the date of purchase by the original consumer, repair or replace, at Para-Gear's option, any part found defective by Para-Gear without charge for material or labor. The parties understand and agree that the buyer's sole and exclusive remedy against Para-Gear shall be for the repair or replacement of defective parts as provided herein.
[...]
This Warranty shall be in lieu of any other warranty, express or implied. Implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are limited in duration to 60 days from the date of purchase. Para-Gear shall not be deemed to be or held liable for personal injuries or for any other damages whether direct or consequential.

PD Reserve:

Quote

Because of the unavoidable danger associated with the use of this parachute, the manufacturer makes no warranty, either expressed or implied.

It is sold with all faults and without any warranty of fitness for any purpose. The manufacturer also disclaims any liability in tort for damages, direct or consequential, including personal injuries resulting from a defect in design, material, workmanship or manufacturing whether caused by negligence on the part of the manufacturer or otherwise. By using this parachute assembly, or allowing it to be used by others, the user waives any liability of the manufacturer for personal injuries or other damages arising from such use.

If the buyer declines to waive liability on the part of the manufacturer, buyer may obtain a full refund of the purchase price by returning the parachute before it is used to the manufacturer within 15 days from the date of the original purchase with a letter stating why it is returned.

That being said, it would take a lawyer to know more about consumer product legislation and figure out the fine details, because not all responsibility can be waived in a company statement. When buying a product, it has to be substantially be what one contracted to buy. If PD shipped you a box with a canopy missing all ribs, or a box with a pebble inside, any jurisdiction would probably allow you to claim your money back (or at least get a replacement).

Of course there is a difference between the physical product being provided as advertised, and its suitability for a particular purpose.

Other companies use similar waivers. For example, the start of a Rigging Innovations Warranty section:

Quote

Because of the unavoidable danger associated with the use of the VOODOO parachute system, the
manufacturer makes NO WARRANTY, either expressed or implied. The system is sold with all faults
and without any warranty of fitness for any purpose.

Hope that helps as a rough overview.

[highspeeddirt 0]

lets say a guy buys a pilotchute. 6 months later , the kill line limiter breaks(the actual webbing, not the stitching). would/should it be replaced?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

highspeeddirt

lets say a guy buys a pilotchute. 6 months later , the kill line limiter breaks(the actual webbing, not the stitching). would/should it be replaced?

Ahhh. A specific question.

Short answer: Probably not. There's too many things that could be a factor that are outside the maker's control. How it was treated, both in the air and on the ground, how it was stored, did something get spilled on it, did sand or dirt get into in, accelerating the wear. Lots of variables.

If it was defective, it should have broken sooner. Maybe.

Worst case, give them a call or shoot an e-mail and see what they say.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Andy9o8 2]

I'd also be curious how many jumps had been put on it.

[rmarshall234 14]

Its a different world out there now....but when I bought my first brand new parachute in the early 80s - a Pegasus from Mike Furry - he stood behind his equipment and name to the extent; that he built me a brand new canopy and refunded me a few jump tickets when I started having problems with the first one. Custom colors no less, and with a nice apology note. The man will forever at least in my eyes, be the epitome of costumer service and integrity in our sport.

[airtwardo 7]

wolfriverjoe

***lets say a guy buys a pilotchute. 6 months later , the kill line limiter breaks(the actual webbing, not the stitching). would/should it be replaced?

Ahhh. A specific question.

Short answer: Probably not. There's too many things that could be a factor that are outside the maker's control. How it was treated, both in the air and on the ground, how it was stored, did something get spilled on it, did sand or dirt get into in, accelerating the wear. Lots of variables.

If it was defective, it should have broken sooner. Maybe.

Worst case, give them a call or shoot an e-mail and see what they say.




Always remember ~ Parachutes may be really expensive - but at least they wear out quick!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~