JDBoston 0 #26 April 22, 2002 Not so. Fact is what can be proven right or wrong through its interaction with reality. Gravity is not a personal belief. Neither is the fact that human babies need physical touching to grow and survive. If someone believes otherwise, and puts this belief into practice, the difference between fact and personal belief will become abundantly clear. People often claim factual status for things that do not deserve it. This is fine for one person, but if you're making decisions that affect other humans, then you have a moral responsibility to apply a higher standard of proof than "because I believe it to be so, it is."Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #27 April 22, 2002 Quote People often claim factual status for things that do not deserve it. This is fine for one person, but if you're making decisions that affect other humans, then you have a moral responsibility to apply a higher standard of proof than "because I believe it to be so, it is."That is exactly my point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #28 April 22, 2002 hey, mine too"and if her "lawyer" friends don't like it, f*ck'em, let em riot.......we're Sonic f*ck'n Death Monkey..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #29 April 22, 2002 QuoteLet's say that somebody other than bush had been elected and didn't believe in Jesus.Would you want him making his choices based on his beliefs Yes, that is what he is elected to do. I think we have had that already. It was Clinton, although he would never have had the balls to come out and admit it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #30 April 22, 2002 Quote I agree with separation of church and state but I also understand that a person in office is not required to denounce his religion just because he is elected to public office. The intent of 'separation of church and state' was to prevent the government from dictating how, when, and whom the people worship. It does not mean that religious people cannot make decisions based on their religious beliefs. I respect Bush for at least holding to his principles even if they are not the most popular. Amen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #31 April 22, 2002 I see now where you mistook me. Let me restate that:Fact is, personal belief plays a vital role in everything. (note the comma between is and personal) Sorry for the confusion.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #32 April 22, 2002 QuoteNot so. Fact is what can be proven right or wrong through its interaction with reality. Every decision you are required to make while in any leadership position, particularly president, will not always be so black and white as 'gravity'. If leadership were a science I would agree with you, but leadership is an art and cannot be explained or executed using equations. That is why most scientists, not all, do not make very good leaders. If facts were the answer to everything then there wouldn't be very much debate in the courtroom where facts supposedly rule. Everyone has their own slant and interpretation of these facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #33 April 22, 2002 Quote. One man cannot speak for an entire nation, the best that one man can do is speak from his heart and the ideals that heart holds.I wonder if you still agree with that stement if the preson you are talking about believes that all women should cover themselves at all times. Or if that same person believes that his belief can be the only faith and all other "infidells" need to be exterminated. I wonder if you would still think it ok that a person subjects "his" country to his own personal beliefs......SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Schroeder 0 #34 April 22, 2002 Amen!"and if her "lawyer" friends don't like it, f*ck'em, let em riot.......we're Sonic f*ck'n Death Monkey..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #35 April 22, 2002 I really wish Faith would dump her husband and realize that I would be much better for her. I doubt it will ever happen. Maybe she will pose nude in a magazine one day. That would be cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #36 April 22, 2002 Really? I did not read your original post that way. By "a higher standard of proof," I mean dispassionate, scientific analysis, not the Bible or a similar text. For instance, I would contend that people of various Christian sects who refuse medical care and (like in a recent case in Boston) feed their baby only honey (or something like that, I can't remember exactly what it was) because "God told them to" are 100% morally culpable for the physical harm they are causing, due to their conscious decision to ignore the realities of how human beings work.Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from... this should shape up into another fun debate...Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #37 April 22, 2002 QuoteI really wish Faith would dump her husband and realize that I would be much better for her. I doubt it will ever happen. Maybe she will pose nude in a magazine one day. That would be cool.I so agree with this statement. She is the hottest!!! I wish she would just sit on my face and that's what I would call "cuntry".Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #38 April 22, 2002 SkyDekkerI was referring to the President of the United States, not a third world extremist who believes all infidels should be exterminated. Try and draw a parallel where one actually exists.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #39 April 22, 2002 Alright THAT'S IT! I am calling in some favors and having Quade and Billv "escorted" to the think tank where they shall remain until such time as they stop giving me headaches.Humph!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #40 April 22, 2002 That's a fair point, but I think that politicians do have a responsibility to take the reality of how humans are put together into account. Such as on the topic of sex education. I think it's totally immoral to deny high quality sex education to our kids for any reason whatsoever. The more kids know about how sex works, the less likely they are to get into trouble with it. Abstinence will never be a majority solution. Hell, it doesn't even work for priests!!!! When people start hitting puberty, they're gonna start trying to get off. That's called reality, and I think a lot of conservative, religious-minded folk ignore it, at the price of STD's and numerous other nice consequences of the deafening silence where good sex ed should be.All that said, you're right, there isn't an equation for everything. But responsible politicians will make use of as much factual data as they can in order to make decisions that will WORK in real life.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #41 April 22, 2002 BB...do you think Faiths drapes match her carpet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JDBoston 0 #42 April 22, 2002 Who says she has a carpet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites james1010 0 #43 April 22, 2002 Quote For instance, I would contend that people of various Christian sects who refuse medical care and (like in a recent case in Boston) feed their baby only honey (or something like that, I can't remember exactly what it was) because "God told them to" are 100% morally culpable for the physical harm they are causing, due to their conscious decision to ignore the realities of how human beings work. Likewise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #44 April 22, 2002 True. I bet she keeps it nice and smooth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #45 April 22, 2002 Chromeboy, I admire your attempts at hijacking here. I don't think it is working though.Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #46 April 22, 2002 QuoteOr if that same person believes that his belief can be the only faith and all other "infidells" need to be exterminated. I think this is where that whole constitution thingy kicks in. You know, the one about separation of church and state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #47 April 22, 2002 I am not trying to hijack. There is just two discussions going on. The name of the thread is More on BUSH and Faith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #48 April 22, 2002 Yeah, why is it they don't get that that is what quade meant. Faith Hill's bush! Isn't this something we can all agree on?Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #49 April 22, 2002 QuoteSuch an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Is that sig. of yours about Faith's Bush? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #50 April 22, 2002 Chromey~I think she has hard wood floors in her kitchen and a really deep gray plush in her bedroom. Bathroom is all tile with a 6X6 shower......It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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james1010 0 #31 April 22, 2002 I see now where you mistook me. Let me restate that:Fact is, personal belief plays a vital role in everything. (note the comma between is and personal) Sorry for the confusion.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #32 April 22, 2002 QuoteNot so. Fact is what can be proven right or wrong through its interaction with reality. Every decision you are required to make while in any leadership position, particularly president, will not always be so black and white as 'gravity'. If leadership were a science I would agree with you, but leadership is an art and cannot be explained or executed using equations. That is why most scientists, not all, do not make very good leaders. If facts were the answer to everything then there wouldn't be very much debate in the courtroom where facts supposedly rule. Everyone has their own slant and interpretation of these facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #33 April 22, 2002 Quote. One man cannot speak for an entire nation, the best that one man can do is speak from his heart and the ideals that heart holds.I wonder if you still agree with that stement if the preson you are talking about believes that all women should cover themselves at all times. Or if that same person believes that his belief can be the only faith and all other "infidells" need to be exterminated. I wonder if you would still think it ok that a person subjects "his" country to his own personal beliefs......SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #34 April 22, 2002 Amen!"and if her "lawyer" friends don't like it, f*ck'em, let em riot.......we're Sonic f*ck'n Death Monkey..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #35 April 22, 2002 I really wish Faith would dump her husband and realize that I would be much better for her. I doubt it will ever happen. Maybe she will pose nude in a magazine one day. That would be cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #36 April 22, 2002 Really? I did not read your original post that way. By "a higher standard of proof," I mean dispassionate, scientific analysis, not the Bible or a similar text. For instance, I would contend that people of various Christian sects who refuse medical care and (like in a recent case in Boston) feed their baby only honey (or something like that, I can't remember exactly what it was) because "God told them to" are 100% morally culpable for the physical harm they are causing, due to their conscious decision to ignore the realities of how human beings work.Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from... this should shape up into another fun debate...Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #37 April 22, 2002 QuoteI really wish Faith would dump her husband and realize that I would be much better for her. I doubt it will ever happen. Maybe she will pose nude in a magazine one day. That would be cool.I so agree with this statement. She is the hottest!!! I wish she would just sit on my face and that's what I would call "cuntry".Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #38 April 22, 2002 SkyDekkerI was referring to the President of the United States, not a third world extremist who believes all infidels should be exterminated. Try and draw a parallel where one actually exists.James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #39 April 22, 2002 Alright THAT'S IT! I am calling in some favors and having Quade and Billv "escorted" to the think tank where they shall remain until such time as they stop giving me headaches.Humph!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #40 April 22, 2002 That's a fair point, but I think that politicians do have a responsibility to take the reality of how humans are put together into account. Such as on the topic of sex education. I think it's totally immoral to deny high quality sex education to our kids for any reason whatsoever. The more kids know about how sex works, the less likely they are to get into trouble with it. Abstinence will never be a majority solution. Hell, it doesn't even work for priests!!!! When people start hitting puberty, they're gonna start trying to get off. That's called reality, and I think a lot of conservative, religious-minded folk ignore it, at the price of STD's and numerous other nice consequences of the deafening silence where good sex ed should be.All that said, you're right, there isn't an equation for everything. But responsible politicians will make use of as much factual data as they can in order to make decisions that will WORK in real life.Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #41 April 22, 2002 BB...do you think Faiths drapes match her carpet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JDBoston 0 #42 April 22, 2002 Who says she has a carpet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
james1010 0 #43 April 22, 2002 Quote For instance, I would contend that people of various Christian sects who refuse medical care and (like in a recent case in Boston) feed their baby only honey (or something like that, I can't remember exactly what it was) because "God told them to" are 100% morally culpable for the physical harm they are causing, due to their conscious decision to ignore the realities of how human beings work. Likewise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #44 April 22, 2002 True. I bet she keeps it nice and smooth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #45 April 22, 2002 Chromeboy, I admire your attempts at hijacking here. I don't think it is working though.Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #46 April 22, 2002 QuoteOr if that same person believes that his belief can be the only faith and all other "infidells" need to be exterminated. I think this is where that whole constitution thingy kicks in. You know, the one about separation of church and state. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #47 April 22, 2002 I am not trying to hijack. There is just two discussions going on. The name of the thread is More on BUSH and Faith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #48 April 22, 2002 Yeah, why is it they don't get that that is what quade meant. Faith Hill's bush! Isn't this something we can all agree on?Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #49 April 22, 2002 QuoteSuch an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Is that sig. of yours about Faith's Bush? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #50 April 22, 2002 Chromey~I think she has hard wood floors in her kitchen and a really deep gray plush in her bedroom. Bathroom is all tile with a 6X6 shower......It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bbarnhouse 0 #50 April 22, 2002 Chromey~I think she has hard wood floors in her kitchen and a really deep gray plush in her bedroom. Bathroom is all tile with a 6X6 shower......It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
