Deployment Accident

[scottbre 0]

If, on break off, you turn and track, making sure that noone is below you, then give a clear waveoff and deploy, and a second later another jumper falls through some part of your canopy, (assume that everyone goes through their emergency procedures correctly, and everyone lands without any injuries) would it be appropriate for you to expect that diver who apparently didn't get out of your way when you waved off, to replace your canopy?
Sorry about the run-on sentence. Turn off the world before you come to bed.

[Sebazz1 2]

All situations are different so I don't believe I would have one set reponse to the incident. I am not a confrontational person and would probably not ask for repairs. If the person offered yes. But you better believe it would be more important to me that there is a thorough discusion regarding the events.
I can see the reponses right now from the hot heads:
"Yeah they'd pay after I kicked him in the f**ckin mouth for almost killing me..............."
Or the mellow heads:
"Nobody got hurt lets be gratefull no one died here today and lets discuss a sulution to our problems........."
Happy Friday Everyone!! Spread the good vibes..........
Sebazz........

[skybytch 273]

imho, no. If I were the low one in that situation, I would not expect the other person to fix or replace my gear. Even though there may be some negligence or incompetence or whatever on the part of either or both people involved, when I jump out of an airplane with other people I accept the fact that shit can happen and it's my problem if my gear gets screwed up.
Were I the high one in that situation I probably would offer, though.
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[rgoper 0]

this is a "one in a million" question. from what i have seen personally, canopys are extremely resiliant, and durable. not to say they can't be destroyed by an action such as this, but to expect the other jumper to replace your main? do you NOT know this can happen BEFORE you get on the plane? we all have to accept what can happen in this sport, and assume the risks for ourselfs, and be as safe as we possibly can be. personally, i would not expect the other jumper to replace my canopy, but they couldn't expect me to pay for they're stitches (and ambulance ride) either. chances are, someone falls through your canopy at 120 mph thery're going to be needing medical attention. this very thing "almost" happned to me not long ago, there i was S.S.S. slider stowed, enjoying my canopy ride at 2K, all of the sudden....whoosh, another jumper in freefall fell to my port side, not 10 feet away, we had a "gentleman's disscussion" on the ground after. see the post of "barrel roll after a track" in safety and training. Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[billvon 3,107]

>If, on break off, you turn and track, making sure that noone is below you, then
> give a clear waveoff and deploy, and a second later another jumper falls through
> some part of your canopy. . . would it be appropriate for you to expect that diver
> who apparently didn't get out of your way when you waved off, to replace your
> canopy?
Depends. Were you freeflying and drifted into his space? Did you dive down like crazy and barely move at all horizontally? Did you break off too early from a nearby RW dive and track for 20 seconds, thus ending up in his group? Did you pull higher than expected? Did you not clear above you? Then perhaps it might not be appropriate. On the other hand, if it was a jumper on a normal 8-way, and he simply didn't look and went through your canopy, I'd think it reasonable that he pay for it. Depends greatly on the situation.
-bill von

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I'd just be pleased to have my ass on the ground safely after that. I honestly couldn't tell you what I'd say after that though, cos if I say "nah, i'd sort it out myself", I might end up making him pay if that did actually happen.
When I grow up, I want to be a post whore

[freeflir29 0]

I just barrel roll (Pausing on my back for 2 seconds or so) on every break off. This way there is no doubt about my airspace. I would think they owed repair or replacement cost. Any skydiver off AFF should know not to lurk above someone below 3500 or so.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[Staso 0]

"If, on break off, you turn and track, making sure that noone is below you, ..."
you meant "above you", didn't you ?
stan.

[scottbre 0]

Quote

"If, on break off, you turn and track, making sure that noone is below you, ..."
you meant "above you", didn't you ?

No.
Turn off the world before you come to bed.

[freeflir29 0]

If you're on your belly and not confident about your back flying it's pretty hard to really clear your airspace above you. You can look over your right and left shoulder but you'll still have blind spots. I'm a big fan of the barrel roll.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[Staso 0]

aren't you supposed to look up and check if there is somebody above ? if you have somebody above and you deploy it's much worse then ahving somebody below, don't you think ? looking up will eliminate the chances of having th situation you just described.
stan.

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Quote

I'd just be pleased to have my ass on the ground safely after that.

Amen to that!
Like they say, "You pay your money, you take yer chances."
Though I'd really appreciate it if the individual in question bought 2 cases of beer - one for them and one for me...cause after something like that - we'd both should get drunk.

[Staso 0]

> I'm a big fan of the barrel roll
i will lose som much altitude doing barrel roll in your track. that's cool, but not very usefull.
stan.

[Staso 0]

ups. i meant "you will lose so much altitude .."

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"this is a "one in a million" question"
Aha, in accident statistic terms, the million to one shot comes up nine times out of ten.
A good friend of mine (anyone here know 'Badger'--Alasdair Fortune from the Deland heydays? He was the first guy in the UK to skysurf) went through a canopy a number of years back, it damn near killed him. Totally trashed the canopy.
Somebody deployed way too high and in the wrong place.
So you have to look at each incident in isolation and sort things out amongst yourselves.
I've witnessed a canopy getting trashed in Spain by a collision after a high jumper hooked into a lower one also.....Scary....Nobody got hurt though.
Cya
D

[SBS 0]

Considering the fact that it is the job of the person above to pay attention to those below and make the adjustments, I think it would take horrible negligence on the part of the person below for it to be "their fault". Although, there would be many cases where there would be a strict talking to upon landing about the low person's actions, if they were incorrect.
I think it would be hard to approach someone and ask or tell them to pay for the damages. As such, I think that someone should be responsible, and if they can't prove beyond any doubt that they could not avoid the accident, even if it was their responsibility to do so, they should make the offer to pay for the damage. Unfortunately, as the "rules" are accepted now, that burden of proof will be on the shoulders of the high man.
Now, say that the high man was unconscious for some reason...that's completely different...I think that when you are in different situations, it is a little more clear what is appropriate for each individual one.
Not exactly the same, but I watched a female jumper at my old dropzone get hit under canopy at 800 feet by another jumper who was spiraling and didn't see her. Destroyed her canopy, and damn near killed her (she popped her reserve first, being so low, then cutaway. The freebag was found inside the main canopy after she landed only a couple of seconds after her reserve was open). You'd better believe that I would expect for negligence like that to replace the canopy.
We know that we are in a sport that is dangerous, and that anything can happen. We also know, though, that we have certain responsibilities to keep ourselves and others safe. I think that we should stand behind those responsibilities, and not use the excuse that "he knows that it's dangerous" as a means to avoid the financial sting.
That's how I would handle myself...just my opinion. Good question, though.
Steve

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I just barrel roll (Pausing on my back for 2 seconds or so) on every break off.

Clay, you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you!!
"Haven't you always wanted a monkey?"

[dove 0]

It is your responsibility to check your airspace - above, below, left right, etc. I also do barrel roll before dumping. That way I know for sure.

[Billy 0]

If I were at fault I'd do what I could ta help the guy out after buying him a beer,, when ya get on the freeway ya expect those around ya ta drive a certain way,, sure ya have ta be aware an hope those around ya don't fuck up,, better ta be alert an not just cruisin along thinkin shit won't happen to you...damn scary question tho,,

[lewmonst 0]

avoid the situation altogether.
it's very easy to barrel roll while in a track, and takes less than a second to roll,look, and keep rolling back over, flare out of your track and wave off.. you should always check your airspace every direction.
besides, rolling is fun
lew

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"besides, rolling is fun"
Fully agree, we should roll together sometime then.....
Cya
D

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Aye, defensive skydiving - being able to place blame won't do you much good if you are dead.

[ozthebum 0]

>Though I'd really appreciate it if the individual in question bought 2 cases of beer - one for them and one for me...cause after >something like that - we'd both should get drunk.
I'm REALLY new at jumping, but I'd have to go with this myself. If I'm alive after this, I really should have at least a dozen beers.
Oz
"no clever quote yet"

[Opie 0]

Was this person in your group? If so how big was your group? Did you not check the airspace above you before you deployed? If they were from another group on the plane did you know what the groups where around you and what they where doing?
I think in most circumstances people are too quick to place blame on the other person instead of asking themselves why they allowed this to happen. I could go on and on here but really should not without knowing the details of the accident. People should stop suing over spilt hot coffee and accept the fact that they spilled it themselves, it's supposed to be hot!
Opie
Fly Smooth, Fly Fast, Don't ____up!

[PLFKING 4]

Like Clay, Dove, and Lew.....I also barrel-roll before waving off and deploying.
And if you're concerned about altitude loss -- just plan on break-off being 500 feet higher.
Don