SkyDekker 1,465 #26 June 5, 2002 QuoteWe elected good people that are suppose to take care of us.Ohhh yeah and what a great job they have been doing. Those are the same people that appoint those in the FBI and CIA....right? We know what a great job they have been doing. I hope that all of those who stated in previous threads that nothing could have been done have been following some of the news lately.Rhino, I am surprised that a military man like yourself would say something like "shit or get off the pot". That sure as hell wasn't what the US was saying during the Cold War. It surprises me that a man, trained to be a supposed gentleman, like yourself would not care about the possible loss of life of such an enormous magnitude.......SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #27 June 5, 2002 No I didn't.. If Ventura "navy seal" would have been in the election I would have voted.. But Bush or Gore?? Either way would have been a wash.. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #28 June 5, 2002 Yeagh.. I disagree.. I was in Guantanamo Bay Cuba for 6 months during the immigration crisis.. I don't think I would have been there is someone didn't care.. Of course it's probably 70% politics.. Blue Skies ..... Dekker,Shit or get off the pot meaning SHUT THE FUCK UP.. These little stinking fucking idiotic, immature fuck head piss ant countries need to grow the fuck up!!And we aren't talking about the cold war.. We are talking about two countries in MODERN day that can't act like fucking adults. IDIOTS! Swinging their little sticks.. They had better be carefull before they piss off a country that has a REAL stick..Mark my words, neither of those countries will EVER use a nuke against each other. They are pussies, big talkers that are flexing their little muscles at each other pissing the rest of us off.Sgt. Cowanxcuse the language.. I'm tired of the negative bullshit flying around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #29 June 5, 2002 "But did the average citizen care about their problems, or even ever hear of these places"Well I do, I care deeply about our world, and worry for her future, for my sake and for my son's future..I thank gawd / allah / budha I am not your 'average person'.Hands up anyone on the forum that has ever been in the Kashmir region?<< Nacmac raises hand>>How about Khazakstan, the country that borders more nuclear powers than any other nation?<< Nacmac raises hand>>Or Azerbaijan, the country that is currently exchanging fire with the Iraqis over mineral rights to the south Caspian.<< Nacmac raises hand>>Has anyone here witnessed the environmental destruction of the Niger Delta by so called 'global' oil companies.<< Nacmac raises hand>>Can anyone tell me what American troops (from one of the mountain divisions (5th?) I think..)are doing in Chechenya?CyaDGR# 37Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #30 June 5, 2002 I guess my point is - people in the US don't care unless it directly effects them......I agree with you on Korea and Vietnam b/c the draft was in effect and that it home..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #31 June 5, 2002 I'm less and less impressed by saber rattling -- including our own.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #32 June 5, 2002 QuoteThese little stinking fucking idiotic, immature fuck head piss ant countries need to grow the fuck up!!I can't believe you would actually say that. It was an organization much smaller than either country's military that ran planes into the WTC and Pentagon. You weren't yelling about little sticks then.QuoteThey had better be carefull before they piss off a country that has a REAL stick..And what exactly is it this country with the big stick is going to do? So far the search for Bin Laden and the War on Terrorism, in my book, isn't too successful. Just look at what is happening in the world. To me it seems that things have only gotten worse, not better.QuoteMark my words, neither of those countries will EVER use a nuke against each other.I hope you are right, though I certainly do not agree with your explanation of that statement.SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #33 June 5, 2002 QuoteCan anyone tell me what American troops (from one of the mountain divisions (5th?) I think..)are doing in Chechenya?Twould seem that they are there to "teach and learn" with respect to the way terrorists fight - after all, Chechnya has had an on-going problem with terrorism, and there have been lots of problems with blowing up apartment buildings, etc...not to mention that Chechnya is "local" to the northern part of the region in conflict at the moment - Afghanistan and Pakistan...and has a huge population of muslims, who *may* (and I state this with great caution) have connections to some of the terrorism in Moscow, and various other areas...furthermore, the former Afghanistan war between them, during the cold war, most of the "successful" fighting units came from that area of the former Soviet Union; the trading of information, techniques, maps, etc. may prove vital to understanding the AQ, and being able to learn to think outside the box and anticiapte further trouble may be what is going on at the moment...but can't be talked about, inasmuch as an unofficial union with Cehchnya may tweak Putin's nose a tad and make some relations more difficult...There is also the thought that the AQ may have bases there; and because Pak won't let us "pursue" through their country, they are maintaining a presence in that area to hopefully prevent the AQ from being able to move into an already tense state....OTOH, I may be utterly and totally wrong. After all, I am the average american citizen, and the news coverage on the Chechnyian issue has been spare...and, when existant, somewhat skewed....Ciels and Pinks-MicheleLife is what you make it; always was, always will be.~Grandma Moses~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #34 June 5, 2002 Aha, so its absolutely nothing to do with stabilising a region so that the west can run a massive pipeline thru it then (from Kashagan -- go on...look it up its gonna turn Khazakstan into another Saudi..heaven forbid ) ......."Chechnya is "local" to the northern part of the region in conflict at the moment - Afghanistan and Pakistan..."Ummmm, with all due respect my wee pal, check a map you average citizen you....., there is a large body of water and several countries between Chechenya and the Kashmir region, which from memory is to the east of Chechenya. They are about as 'local' as New York and Phoenix, give or take a couple of thousand miles....And then we are back to that old chesnut of defining the difference between a terrorist, a freedom fighter, a separatist etc...Call me a cynical old git.....CyaDGR# 37Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellyboy 0 #35 June 5, 2002 Coudn't agree more with you about the pipeline bit , it seems the US is only REALLY interested in anything happening in the rest of the World when it affects their prosperity , feeling of security and perceived god given right to rape the rest of the world for the cheap resources and labor to be found there.I can't even begin to imagine what was going through whoever it was' mind when they described Pakistan and India as immature piss-ant countries , do you think the world revolves around the USA? I do hate to have to burst your bubble , but you're living in la-la land , the press here only feeds you what the government want you to hear , and at the moment there's precious little info about the India Pakistan thing because they've both basically decided to ditch US advice and seek the counsel of the Russian and Chinese government. Both India and Pakistan are valuable resources to the USA , were it not for the fantastic university education (especially technology based) available in India most US software firms would have folded years ago , that's where a staggering volume of the world's code is written. I urge you all to look at the news you're getting with a sceptical eye, the US isn't interested in India and Pakistan (Or Afghanistan , or Iraq etc) because it's some benevolent parent seeking harmony and wealth for all , it's interested in preserving an unsustainable level of rude wealth for itself to share amongst an increasingly insular upper middle class to the detriment of all others . In fact , realization of the 'goal' of wealth and happiness for all would smash the American 'dream' to smithereens, at least in the short to mid term. Grow up , the US is the world analog to a schoolyard bully, stealing other people's lunch money.Right , let's all go skydiving and burn some more oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #36 June 5, 2002 Quote. . . the press here only feeds you what the government want you to hear . . .I can't be exactly certain which country you're talking about, but I'm almost certain that's not the way it works here in the U.S.I'll admit the U.S. government does attempt to manipulate the press quite a bit. I'll even go so far as to say that certain incredibly lazy reporters will parrot what the goverment tells them, however, the U.S. press is largely free to report just about anything it can and does get it's hands on.How else would things like; Watergate, Yellow Fruit, White Water, Monica Lewinski, the current FBI & CIA September 11 debacle and scores and scores of other scandles have been reported on?quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #37 June 5, 2002 You can't believe allot.. Believe it..And actually yes, when those assholes flew into buildings where innocent people were making a living YES I was yelling.. Nuclear weapons are a deturrent.. They won't use them.. My opinion anyways.. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #38 June 5, 2002 "let's all go skydiving and burn some more oil"Burning oil keeps me in a job, I earn money producing the plant that produces it, and of course I love skydiving......So I'm with you 'Fishy Mc Tart'.....I was also curious as to the take on calling India 'immature', their culture is one of the oldest on the planet, and has survived and repelled imperial rule by my country......I let this one go as I've had similar discussions, on similar subjects, with the respected Sergeant Cowan before, which resulted in thread locking........And we don't need that again, 'cos we are all civilised, and civil here right? CyaDGR# 37Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #39 June 5, 2002 Quoteit seems the US is only REALLY interested in anything happening in the rest of the World when it affects their prosperity , feeling of security and perceived god given right to rape the rest of the world for the cheap resources and labor to be found there.Yeah, look at all the benefits we received by protecting the muslims from genocide in Yugoslavia. That sure was selfish of us.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #40 June 5, 2002 "Yeah, look at all the benefits we received by protecting the muslims from genocide in Yugoslavia. That sure was selfish of us."Yeah? like the US were the only ones over there?I thought IFOR consisted of a mulitnational group of soldiers.....Silly me, I must have been mistaken....CyaDGR# 37Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellyboy 0 #41 June 5, 2002 Erm , I'm in the US. I'd be the first to admit that the US press is apparently free to say what it wants , but you will note with not a little irritation the regularity with which seemingly honest news stories are later revealed to be a mere shadow of the real truth . I'm no conspiracy theorist , but the regularity with which scandals also appear in the news at exactly the same time as a major piece of news which might not look very good for the US is happening is quite alarming. I'm not saying what you read in the press is untrue , just that it represents a VERY biased viewpoint and tends to blinker itself to anything which criticizes US policy. As a consequence we, the US people, believe in the main that the almightly USA is always right and just.Read the European news agencies websites , read the Russian and Chinese media websites , Singaporan news , whatever (Most are also in English) and you'll begin to be able to piece together a more balanced view of what's really going on.Right , off to the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #42 June 5, 2002 Quotehowever, the U.S. press is largely free to report just about anything it can and does get it's hands on.I certainly agree with you on that Quade. Howevere, I have found that the news in the US seriously lacks stories that are not directly about the US. Not much foreign news gets reported, unless it directly affects the US. Hence, I am not overly suprised that the majority of americans have no clue what goes on outside of their borders. Whenever I watch the nightly news on CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS it surprises me how little actually gets reported........SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #43 June 5, 2002 Actually how Ironic that I saw a show about India last night. Mostly about the city of Calcutta. India has repelled many many many invaders throughout history. Christians, Muslims, Portugese, French, English, etc... And as for the previous comment on the computer engineers comming from India it is true. I would say as much as 50% of the tech start-ups in the Silicon Valley have Indian Founders. I think India is cool"let's all go skydiving and burn some more oil"If only beer would run cars and planes. The environment would be cleaner and I would make a living syphoning beer. In fact all the world leaders should sit down and have a cold frosty beer together.......... Can anyone guess what I'm thirsting for right now?Sebazz........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 June 5, 2002 QuoteYeah? like the US were the only ones over there?I thought IFOR consisted of a mulitnational group of soldiers.....Silly me, I must have been mistaken....Where in my post did I say we were the only ones there? I was rebutting the statement that we ONLY get involved in order to "rape" other countries.Personally, I don't have a superiority complex being an American. I'm proud and glad to have been born and raised and live in this country. Would I be just as glad if I were born in Canada, or England, or any other western cultured democracy? Probably, yes.Some things we do are wrong, but I'd have to say that the majority of the foreign and domestic policies of this country are more fair than many others, and result in an increased standard of living for both ourselves and other countries around the world. If you, or anyone else disagrees with that, I offer you the opportunity to do something about changing it or go somewhere else. But slandering a nation with generic statements in this forum serves no purpose except to make you feel like your some kind of rebel and piss people like myself off.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #45 June 5, 2002 QuoteNot much foreign news gets reported, unless it directly affects the US.Well, yes, I'd admit to that as well, but it's not because the news people don't care, it has more to do with ratings and that's the sales department.quadehttp://futurecam.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #46 June 5, 2002 QuoteWhenever I watch the nightly news on CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS it surprises me how little actually gets reported........That's because you're looking in the wrong place. If you want real news instead of eye candy and fluff, you have to seek it out. If you want to stick to the TV, try Meet the Press, McNeil/Lehrer, etc. Pick up the WSJ, NYT, WashPost. There's a ton of legitimate, in depth, world wide reporting. It's just that most people would rather watch V.I.P.cielos azules y cerveza fría-Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #47 June 5, 2002 QuoteThat's because you're looking in the wrong place.I agree with you completely. However, unfortunately, the majority of the American, and in my opinion to a lesser extent Canadian population relies on those major channels for their news. And I think Quade is correct in saying that it has all to do with teh ratings and consequently the sales department.It bugs me when people make statements that would indicate that the could care less that thousands if not millions of Indian and Pakistani people could lose their lives. The enormous impact it could have on life as we know it. Even if nuclear weapons are not deployed, a full scale war in that region could easily spill over into the Middle East. From there it is a small step to a full scale Third World War.I wonder if certain people would still be talking about big or little sticks..............SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #48 June 5, 2002 "But slandering a nation with generic statements"To paraphrase yourself where did I do that?Don't get me wrong Kevin, I'm not trying to slander the US, however I DO have the right to do so.Something along the lines of 'No taxation without representation', well I pay tax here and I don't get a vote, free speech and all that, isn't that in your constitution somewhere......That aside, I don't really have a bad word to say about the US, I have enjoyed being a guest here, and have met some very cool people. "do something about changing it or go somewhere else"BTW I was invited here by an American company, I didn't come to the US looking for work, or apply for a job here, they came looking for me. I've worked in some unpleasant places around the world, and your government is a far cry from those in say India, Nigeria, the Congo, Khazakstan, Azerbaijan, to mention but a few, but its still not perfect as you yourself freely admit.One of my points in all this is that its NOT America who are the bad guys here, but the multi nationals who have some 'sympathetic ears' on Capitol Hill, Westminster, The Hague, even the Kremlin etc. I feel we, all of us as global citizens, have less and less say in what is happening in the world, and we are seldom told the truth about situations. Not just in the US, the same can be said for the UK also. Very often UK press releases are 'economic with the truth' and timed so the spin doctors can manipulate public opinion. It is their job to do so after all. Hell the police in the UK have the power to suppress news if they feel like it.Also please bear in mind you were not alone in Korea, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Kuwait, Afghanistan etc. We British remain one of the US' most faithfull allies, a fact often overlooked by our colonial cousins. I'm sorry if you took the brunt of that one, I didn't mean it personally. And if you think British armed forces are whiter than white check your history books.....we invented concentration camps for example.....BTW England isn't a democracy, its part of a monarchy called the United Kingdom, England doesn't even have its own government. One last rant folks.....This board is truly international, and not just for the use of American citizens, we have a truly global community here united by the love of our sport. There will be cultural differences from time to time, and we shouldn't take things personally.......Now lets swap 'no shit' stories and have a cool one, I'm buying.....CyaDGR# 37Remember how lucky you are to see and touch the sky; the blind may only dream. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellyboy 0 #49 June 5, 2002 Hoo frickin ray! Couldn't agree more.I'm also an invitee to this country , and I don't get a vote either. I've lived in myriad countries too, and they all have their bad. I go to my previous statement that people need to take a wider look through world media and piece together a more realistic view of what's going on , and then make up their own minds. Any unresearched viewpoint is called prejudice, you can never be truly free of it , just less guilty of it.Anyway , I'm off to the DZ for a swift lift and some beer, s'more fun than debating world politics . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #50 June 6, 2002 ...Fakin' Pakies...(quote)Did anybody see the movie "East is East", watch it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
