Parachutes...... Talking bad shit on people.......

[rhino 0]

Actually I get advise on a regular basis from Hook, and I use to pick Charlie Mullins brain.. I am teachable but only by those why are where I want to be.
If you can't hit a golf ball as good as I can you have no business trying to give me lessons..
Blue Skies .....
Whatever.. This isn't about me.. Predictions are fine.. Predict to yourself of help someone so your prediction dosn't come true.. Or at least you can say you tried to help..
Bottom line... Enough SHIT TALKING... Constructive criticism is one thing bad ju ju is another..

[bbarnhouse 0]

There was a gal last year who just woudn't listen to those with more experience. Refused to go back up to a landable canopy, put vollyball pads on her knees cause she was pounding in.
Boy I sure will be glad when her double femurs and knee caps are well enough so that she can jump again.........
Some people think they know.......and some actually do.
All it takes is faith and trust
and a little bit of
Pixie Dust...........

[diverdriver 7]

Rhino, not hitting a golf ball well has nothing to do with giving you or anyone else advice. The outside observer can some times keenly see a bad situation. Tiger Woods is hands down the best golfer out there now. Does he take lessons? Yes he does. Can his coach hit better than him? No he can't. Is the advice useless to Tiger? I don't think so. He's still on top.
Ice skating coaches.....probably aren't and probably never were as good as there students are or will be. Does that make their advice useless? No.
I left a skydiving operation and predicted to my friends that they would have a fatal plane crash within a year of me leaving. I made an assesment of what I knew and saw. I hate being right....but 5 of my friends died 11 months after I left. I have also predicted jumpers who were on a course to hurt themselves under canopy. And I was correct on a few of them. Others.....are still looking for a smoking hole.
If I see someone pulling a hook out of the corner all the time I'm pretty safe in saying that the probability of femuring is high. If I told them they were headed for a femur break I don't think I would be wrong in that assesment. It may be the comment that wakes them up. Then again, some people need reverse psychology to listen.
I had a guy with 30 jumps ask if he could jump a tall Chicago building he had access too. He wanted to do it with a sport rig. I said no. And NO. And no. AND NO!!! After 30 minutes of arguement of why he shouldn't do it I said "Hey, go large! We'll read about you later in the paper." He said "Oh...so I'd be a total dumbshit for trying huh?" I wish I'd tried that tactic earlier. Man did I waste a lot of breath.
Chris

[SBS 0]

Speak onto others what you want spoken onto you
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I hope that if someone sees me doing something as dangerous as loading a canopy at 2.0 with 300 jumps that they talk to me about it.
-----------------------
You seem to be under the impression that people are giving you shit just for the sake of giving you shit, and not because they have seen these things done before by people with the same attitude that you portray, and watched them end in tragedy.
You very well may not ever get hurt, and I hope you don't. As far as I am concerned, I would love for there to never be another injury or fatality in our sport. The fact is, though, that EVERYONE has something go wrong at some point. The size of their canopy and the experience they have will dictate if they roll and dust themselves off, or if they are hauled away in an ambulance or worse.
I wish you could see that most people are not picking just to pick, and that there is reason in listening to experience.
Everyone stay safe!
Steve

[Cajun 0]

I talked to a sub 100 jumper (I think it was an 85?) this past weekend. He has over 3000 skydive and is very current. This is what he told me.
"The only thing that worries me right now is off dz landings. When you are going this fast, beans are broken legs and backyards are impossible"
I don't think a lot of people understand just how fast 2.0 : 1 is.
BTW I've only met one person that I think could safely fly a 2:1 canopy at 300 jumps. IMHO they are very rare, but they are out there.
Jesus saves, the rest of you take 5d20 damage.

[jfields 0]

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BTW I've only met one person that I think could safely fly a 2:1 canopy at 300 jumps. IMHO they are very rare, but they are out there.

Perhaps, but even they would still benefit from spending some more jumps at a lower wingloading. The experience would make them better still when the finally decided to downsize.
Justin

[kopelen 0]

Seen a simlar response to this question before on here.
If you don't think you can land your canopy in any off field area, you might want to think twice about jumping whatever size canopy it is. This is a general guideline and an open one. Take it for what its worth, 0.02

[LawnDart21 0]

This thread is disturbing. I'm as guilty as the next jumper aspiring to be a swoop monster, I went from a Sabre 150 (loaded at 1.5) to a Vengeance 120 (loaded at 1.875) at jump number 375. And while it was overall a relatively smooth transition, I'll be the first to say, it could have ended my skydiving career. Just like some other jumper(s) on here, I didn't want to listen to the "you'll get hurt eventually" advice, I just shut them all out and did my thing. I stayed current all winter, talked with as many people as I could to learn about what I was doing, before and during my transition, I went to Evolution Canopy School to learn from the best pilots on the planet, and I can fly a canopy as good as anyone I have seen with my jump numbers, but.........with all that, I was and still am very cautious and treat the canopy like a loaded gun, which essentially it is. This "I am not going to get hurt" mentality is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Acknowledge the risk, look at the statistics, even if Rhino is the clone of Clint Clawson, you will eventually, un arguably going to get caught in the corner someday and whack yourself. Every canopy swooper out there has taken themselves out of their sneakers atleast once. Unlike you though, I expect that landing and fear that landing on every jump, in hopes it will keep me safer. I'm not knocking you for your choice in canopy or your decision to tempt fate, just your "I will not get hurt attitude." Your a skydiver landing a HP parachute....it will happen, just give it time. The difference between walking away from it and being carried away from it is being ready for it and accepting it as a reality. Invincibility is just a word. As for whether someone with 300 jumps should jump a canopy loaded 2.0 or higher? Being able to land a canopy at 2.0 does not make a good pilot. Just because you could, don't mean you should. Everyone, myself included sometimes is in such a big rush to grow up in canopy flight, we fail to realize the risks and dangers involved, add to that an over inflated ego, it's a recipe for disaster. I was lucky, I didn't get banged up in my transition, except for a few grass stains and a bloody nose once. And I attribute my relative success in the transition to my willingness to be taught and more importantly, to be criticized by those around me that care about me and shared their knowledge, (most of the time I didn't even ask for the advice/criticism, but accepted it anyway). As a foot note I also want to say that being able to land a highly loaded canopy and swoop it does not mean someone is necessarily a great pilot. There is a HUGE learning curve to be gained from getting the most out of larger canopies, something I missed out on by downsizing too quick. To illustrate that point it is the general concensus of some of the top swoopers in the world, that most non competitve fun jumpers jumping VX canopies and other top line cross braced canopies aren't even flying them to their full potential, because they don't know how. Sure they can land them and swoop them, but they don't fly them to thier limits because they don't know how. I's like buying a Ferrari and driving it like a Honda. Why spend all the extra money if your not using what you paid for.
Rhino, I wasn't trying to flame on you, you were just the lead opposition to my opinion in this thread. I wish you nothing but complete safety and a long career as a swooper. And again, this is all just my opinion, and we know opinions are like assholes.....right?
Stay safe everybody.
"Safe Swoops to all and to all a good flight"
Tom

[SBS 0]

Good post.
I especially agree with the part about flying a canopy to its potential, and the idea that just because you can land a canopy does not mean that it is the best canopy for an individual. I can land smaller canopies than I own, but know that I have a lot more to learn where I am at. The irony is that the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know, and the less hurried you become to downsize.
Downsizing quickly is fine, if you want to jump small canopies and the risk of getting hurt or killed is worth it to you. If you want to be a great canopy swooper, though, there is bending, but no beating the learning curve.
Steve

[cloud9 0]

The whole topic of this thread is dumb as they come. If you could wish ill will on some one there would be dead and crippled ex wives and husbands littering the streets!

[thrillseek 0]

I forget where i heard the quote, but it goes something like this: "skydiving isn't fun, it's serious fun!"
My feelings on the matter of canopy choices may be a bit skewed after losing a good freind to a canopy that was too small.
The fact of the matter is that there are soooo many things that can go wrong in this sport that we may not have control over. Things such as gear selection though, we do have control over. My 190lb dumb ass got injured after trying to downsize to a sabre 150 at +/-35 jumps. The speed and reaction time was just too much to learn on that first jump. I wasn't swooping or anything, just trying to avoid a friend who was staring at the peas (unpredictable situation). When i gave the canopy the same amount of input that i ordinarily would have, it reacted WAY faster and drove me into the ground. All for what i thought was a semi-flat turn.
The fact is, people aren't ever going to stop this trend of downsizing. Ever. All we can do is look out for our own and teach the lower timed jumpers what we know. In the same respect, we all could use a little bit of humility. The only one in my mind that can say they don't need anyone's advice is perhaps Lew Sanborn, but i'm willing to be even he listens. He is one of my heroes in this sport, as are a lot of the other "over fifty" types. They are still around and jumping partly because of luck, but also because they listened and learned and didn't think they knew it all.
That is my rant...Probably just as good for a lot of other scenarios

[SBS 0]

I like the quote, "Learn from the mistakes from others...you won't live long enough to make them all yourself."
-S

[freeflir29 0]

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that most non competitve fun jumpers jumping VX canopies and other top line cross braced canopies aren't even flying them to their full potential, because they don't know how

My point exactly. It seems that some people think that it's the canopies fault that they can't swoop. So they get a smaller one so they can do a little carve and get more surf. I could fly the dog shit out of my PD 190 before I downsized. I won't downsize again until I can fly this Stilletto 170 to it's limits. I'm getting there after 80 some jumps on it. When I am doing regular 270's and such every time I land I'll think about downsizing. Funny thing is.....I can usually swoop farther than some of these people on their pocket rockets. Why? Because I bothered to learn how to fly my canopy.
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[freeflir29 0]

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If you could wish ill will on some one there would be dead and crippled ex wives and husbands littering the streets!

Mine would still be getting drug by a garbage truck....4 years later...
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[quade 4]

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If you don't have confidence in yourself that is fine, but don't go telling people that THEY WILL GET HURT it's just a matter of time.. That's bullshit.. That is bad form and shit talk at it's best.

I'm guessing you don't want in on the Dead Pool then?

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Each and every one of us knows the inherent risks involved in whatever facet of skydiving we are in.. If you have 300 jumps and you have done your homework and you are a good pilot then it is your choice if you want to load a canopy above 2.0.

Making a statement like this actually assumes quite a lot (. . . if . . . if . . . if . . .).
Actually, I think you're wrong. I don't think each and everyone of us knows the inherent risks involved. I believe there are a few of us that somehow truly believe they're so smart, so good and possibly so good looking that they're invincible and can not become a smoking hole in the ground.
These people need to be awakened.
It's not that anybody wishes that they become injured, but it's a simple statistical fact that they probably will.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[freeflir29 0]

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they're so smart, so good and possibly so good looking

Why thanks...I have always thought so.....
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[SBS 0]

and possibly so good looking that they're invincible and can not become a smoking hole in the ground.
----------------------------
just for the record, there are a couple of us that ARE that good looking. :-)
he he he
-S

[bodypilot90 0]

I wish you well,,,,,, I hope your right
blues
Bill

[SBS 0]

Just to make sure you understand, I am just kidding.
:-)
-S

[bbarnhouse 0]

I agree with Quade and Billv. ahhhhh jump wonders!
All it takes is faith and trust
and a little bit of
Pixie Dust...........

[AndyMan 7]

rhino, I've laid off because I didn't want to stir shit, but because you posted this, I'm gonna jump in.
Yes, I'm one of those who's given you shit for your canopy choice. "you're nuts" is the words I used.
Of course it's perfectly all right for you to jump whatever you want to. It's your choice, I can't stop you, nor would I want to stop you. You can do whatever it is that you want to.
The size of your canopy concerns me, loading upwards of 1.9 with your experience and currency is literally asking for trouble. Before you blow me off, trust that unfortunately I've got a pretty good track record of predicting major injuries.
However, it's not just the size of your canopy, it's your attitude. I don't see any of the real canopy experts here claiming that they won't get hurt. I don't see Chuck, or Derek insisting that they're the safest canopy pilots there is. I see Chuck and Derek admitting that they love the rush of a high speed landing, and they accept the risk of doing what they do.
You, on the other hand, never skip an opportunity to insist how good you are, how good your training is, and how safe you are. You don't seem to understand that jumping a 87 square foot canopy is by definition, NOT SAFE. You've stated that you honestly think your 87 is just as safe as a big triathlong, which tells me you really don't understand the basics of aerodynamics.
I understand small canopies are fun. I jump a stiletto at 1.5, which to me is a whole lot to handle. I also admit that it's quite risky, because I know that if I screw up I'll get seriously hurt.
I RESPECT my canopy, that it can and will hurt me if I don't keep on top of it. Quite simply, I don't see that same respect in you, and that's why you're on my list of people I think will get hurt (or worse) if you continue down this path.
_Am
"I wanna be a canopy nazi " - rhino

[Michele 1]

Quade, sometimes good looks aren't gonna be enough to get out of the corner...and yes, SBS can be good looking, when he's not being a geek...
Rhino, I think what's tripped your trigger was someone saying someone else will break something. That's not bad form, nor is it talking shit on people. It may have been said poorly, it may have been said between people who are not friends, but so what? If I EVER do something which will narrow my margin for whatever modicum of safety there is wehn throwing my ass from a plane, someone had best grab me and sit me down and explain to me that I am getting set to whack myself off the planet. Nice words or not, over beer or not, politely or yelling, I obviously need to hear it. And if I am not listening, please yell harder at me.
Why? Because I am not a hotshot. I am not about ego. I am not about how many bones I can break and still fly. I am not about a tiny canopy. I am about enjoying the sky, the freedom, the intensity, the joy that jumping brings. I can't do that if I am seriously injured. I can't do that if I am in a body cast, crippled for life because I flew something far too hot, and no-one bothered to tell me...or if they did, I didn't bother to listen because my head was too full of hot air to hear them.
Look, Rhino, while you may think it's bad form, I think it's necessary. I don't know alot about this sport - but I do know that not listening to folks may get me killed.
What's the hurry? Won't there be any smaller canopies in a few years, when I am ready for them? Won't there be skydiving for me to enjoy later, and challenge in stages, as I become more capable and ready? Won't there still be people willing to fly with me while I drive the Volvo of canopies? Won't there be people who will like me and be my friend, regardless of the canopy I fly? What's wrong with knowing limits? What's wrong with understanding safety margins? What's wrong with thinking I am good, but not the best yet, and watching the best, waiting and working to be my very own best at that level, and then moving on to the next one?
I don't get it. The sky's not going anywhere. What's the hurry?
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
Life is what you make it; always was, always will be.
~Grandma Moses~

[quade 4]

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Quade, sometimes good looks aren't gonna be enough to get out of the corner...

But, of course, that was my point!
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Michele 1]

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But, of course, that was my point!

yes, well, maybe they took a piece of my brain during the surgery...or the headache was really bad, or my humor was so subtle that it subtled itself right out of existence....(gawd it hurts to wink...pulls the sutures around!)
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
Life is what you make it; always was, always will be.
~Grandma Moses~

[AndyMan 7]

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Actually I get advise on a regular basis from Hook, and I use to pick Charlie Mullins brain..

Just out of curiosity.... Why is Derek not coming to your defense, I wonder....?
_Am
"I wanna be a canopy nazi " - rhino