Proof of God

[JJohnson 0]

I am probably one of the most critical, cynical people you'll ever wanna meet.....of myself. I am my own worst enemy.
Blind faith however, in a concept of a God cannot be a bad thing. Nowhere did this man tall me how to think of God, he simply gave me a reason to accept that such a power was there. As simple of a reason as it may be, it worked. Look around you at the beauty in the world, did we create this? No. So somewhere there is something witha vision beyond ours.
If by asking this power for help in not drinking and it worked...than I'll keep believing it is there.

To not accept a God, in some form means that all is random chance. That thought scares me more than any concept of God.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

Nothin is random, everything has a purpose. There is a God, and understand that every concept of God as we know it may very well be incorrect. We learn more about science every day, yet we understand so little. We discover new species on our own planet.......how could we possible understand any power grand enough to create us? Evolution IS creation. I don't think God made us as we are. He set free a spark and let his children go. He gave us opportunity and potential and like any good parent, it is left up to us...the children...to grow up.

It is also human nature my friend, to think we are on the top of the evolutionary ladder, becuase to think that we are not the baddest critters in the valley is too humbling for us to deal with.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

I'm not quite sure what you are saying? Have I been insulted here and missed it?

Any of my old bad habits have liitle to do with any concept of a God. Please explain.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[cloud9 0]

Quote

If proof existed there would be no need for faith. Some of us weren't drunks or druggies and didn't suffer these hallucinations

Well I have never been a drunk or a druggie, and have never been treated for mental illness or have had hallucinations.
I think there is plenty of proof, but faith also must come into play. You deal with things everyday that have no pysical proof, faith is your only confirmation. All abstract emotions are simply believed. I can't see, hear, smell or touch love but I have faith that it exist. The proof is all around me. You simply need to open your eyes and your heart and you'll find God all around you!

[gus 1]

Quote

Look around you at the beauty in the world, did we create this? No.

Agreed.

Quote

So somewhere there is something with a vision beyond ours.

I'm sorry, that just doesn't follow - the one doesn't imply the other.

Quote

If by asking this power for help in not drinking and it worked...than I'll keep believing it is there.

Why not give yourself some credit, it was you that pulled yourself out of that hole. Why credit God for the good but deny him any responsibility for the bad?

Quote

To not accept a God, in some form means that all is random chance.

Alot of people would agree with that.

Quote

That thought scares me more than any concept of God.

Isn't that the point?

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[gravitysurf808 0]

Quote

. Look around you at the beauty in the world, did we create this? No. So somewhere there is something witha vision beyond ours.

No you are incorrect. It was created with math and coincidense.

[captainquim 0]

cloud 9,

there is proof that 'love' exists. the emotions that you feel when you are 'in love' are created by chemicals in your brain that come into play when you experience another individual with the correct smell, appearance, chemical composition etc. it is a chemical/biological thing created so that you stay together long enough to raise your kids - then it disappears. this is why divorce is now more common as people are beginning to question the values that society used to hold dear. tradition is holding us back, science is the key. the romantic notions that you are talking about are another product of human society. we are kidding ourselves - be true to reality, give in to science, enjoy yourself - SKYDIVE

[favaks 0]

Quote

Look around you at the beauty in the world, did we create this?

Look at all the diseases, deaths, destructions, and sufferings in the world. Did he create this too?

favaks

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Some of us weren't drunks or druggies and didn't suffer these hallucinations.

IMHO, this comment is pretty nasty. JJohnson was simply writing about a life experience of his. He shared with us alot of personal stuff that he didn't have to.

I hope the moderators have taken note of this personal attack.

_________________________________________
Chris

[billvon 3,080]

>Some of us weren't drunks or druggies and didn't suffer these
> hallucinations.

Surely you're not implying that anyone who believes in god is a drunk or a drug user? That's just plain rude, putting aside the fact that it is trivially easy to disprove.

[kallend 2,112]

Quote

Surely you're not implying that anyone who believes in god is a drunk or a
drug user? That's just plain rude, putting aside the fact that it is trivially
easy to disprove.

You omitted the first sentence that gave context. I believe that anyone who believes they have PROOF of the existence of God is suffering from distorted reality - hallucination if you will. It is remarkable how many people who claim personal intervention by a deity have been guilty of previous substance abuse. Some religions even promote mind-altering substance use.

It is also known now that certain mental illnesses tend to produce hallucinations that are often of a religious nature.

[IMGR2 0]

I guess my only question is "Do you believe in Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and little green men from outer space?"

If the answer is "no" then why do you believe in "God"?

You have never seen any of these people although they all affect peoples lives on a daily basis.
There have been books written about all of them.

Or is it the fact that we feel compelled to give a portion of our income to a few chosen ones that do not have to pay taxes on it then turn around with that money and buy their million dollar homes with security systems and drive their Mercedes or BMW's.

Let's not forget to send our children to study under these representatives of your god so they may be sodomized and raped.

Get a grip!!!
And don't feed me this f*#king line about, they will pay for their sins when they meet up with him at the pearly gates.
I choose to see action taken now. And if your god is who people say he is then I would expect to see them struck down by lighting.
The bible tells us about god and jesus saving lives and so forth, how about some of you christians put yourself in those childrens shoes that have been raped and told it was god's will or they may be punished if they told anyone.

Sorry, I will get off my soap box now.

Spread the love.

This power all of you are talking about is in all of us, not because some entity that we have never seen bestows it on us.

My beliefs, from my little twisted mind, hope you all understand.

Lots O Love,
Bryan

[cloud9 0]

Quote

there is proof that 'love' exists. the emotions that you feel when you are 'in love' are created by chemicals in your brain that come into play when you experience another individual with the correct smell, appearance, chemical composition etc.

Sorry but thats not love its lust! You get the same thing watching a porno flick.

.

[billvon 3,080]

>I believe that anyone who believes they have PROOF of the
>existence of God is suffering from distorted reality - hallucination if
>you will. It is remarkable how many people who claim personal
>intervention by a deity have been guilty of previous substance
> abuse.

Oh, I don't know about that. My grandmother used to pray for things and get them regularly. She used to wake us all up at 6 am some weekday mornings and make us go to mass, and we would always dread that, because it meant that we'd get a phone call that afternoon that told us some relative had died. That was her proof, and she never drank or used drugs.

Everyone requires different levels of proof. Many astrophysicists believe in black holes, even though they are not directly observable. They see phenomena (accretion disks, tidal effects etc) and infer the existence of a black hole. I suspect that not too many of them came by their belief via drugs or alcohol - it is simply a valid and likely explanation of the phenomena they see. Some people see god no differently.

[kallend 2,112]

There's an interesting section in "Innumeracy" by J.A. Paulos on coincidences, how likely they are, and how many people attribute them to supernatural intervention.

[JJohnson 0]

I do take some credit. Up to the age of 26, I messed my life up. What was the worst feeling was that I was hollow inside, a human shell with no real emotion. The drugs and alcohol medicated those feelings, but only for a awhile.
When I hit a bottom, I asked for help. It did not come in any grandiose manner. But it came. A could claim random chance, but choose not to look my gift horse in the mouth.
Fear is a great motivator, it makes us do wonderful things. My worst fear is facing God, whatever he may be, and admit to him that I wasted my life. Other than that I claim NO knowledge or belief of God. But it feels better to me to believe than to not. That is my only proof.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

So who set the rules that govern math and science??? Someone smarter than we?? Someone more powerful than we??? Could this person be a God???
Again, I make no claim to know a thing about God, other than I asked for help and got it. For the shit I put my body and mind trough I got no reason to compalin about anything in my life. I got wife, step kids that love me like they were my own, a great job with a boss I hate. I did all of that, but God gave me that potential.
I hate math and use a calculator to do addition and subratction, so I can't give credit there.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

Maybe he did. If so maybe for a reason I don't know or understand. Maybe if I belive in God I need also accept a counterpart to that, like a Satan. Maybe he did that shit. Truth is I don't know.
Maybe he put these things in our lives to give us challenges. It must be a rewarding feeling being a doctor and treating someone so that they live instead of die.
And look around at the real ugly in the world. Most of it we cause, and could stop anytime we choose. How amny starving people could we really feed?....All of them? How many diseases could we cure or stop?....Lots of them?
Lots of questions....I got tons of those. Answers I'm a little short on, but tomorrow holds hope.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

I think you have taken me out of context. I did not claim personal intervention by God. I never claimed to have heard God, seen him or had a hand writen note from him. Being one the smartest, most open minded people I know....a veritable legend in my own mind, I do know what hallucinations are like. I felt them first hand. The last one I had was in corn field on lots of LSD.
Since May 5th, 1990 I can honestly say I have not had anything of the sort.
My distorted reality is a pretty cool place for me. Full of love, strife and challenges. Rewards and setbacks.
Take it or leave it, I never said anything about religion. Only God. I have my proof. A feeling everyday, that is so primal it is in my soul. Do you have proof that this is not from God? So my proof may require faith on your part to accept. But it is this proof that gives me my faith.

I would put this to a test:
If you do not believe in a God of any sort, than simply sell me your soul. Write it out on a piece of paper. I sell my soul to Jeff Johnson for $1.00. Mail it to me and I'll send you a dollar. You make a buck for selling something you don't have, cause God doesn't reall exist.
Now if you cannot do this, perhaps it is because on some other level, NOT the level that you logically argue with your girlfriend about why you should go see Rambo 55 instead of the chick flick she wants to see, but on a much deeper level you really know there is a God.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[JJohnson 0]

Of course I did believe in them. Until it was proven to me that they did not exist.
But I never had a real belief in God. I was self will run riot. I did what pleased me and didn't give a fuck who I hurt. At some point, my human emotions fought back and said to me that I was spiritually dying. My soul cried out for something. God was it. Do not misconstrue. I DO not go to church, have no clue on religion and nowhere did I ever mention the bible. God to me is that love you are talking about. I believe we are all a part of something a bit bigger than what we know. Everything has a source, must come from somewhere. I choose to think that ALL potential comes from God.
JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[kallend 2,112]

Quote

f you do not believe in a God of any sort, than simply sell me your soul.
Write it out on a piece of paper. I sell my soul to Jeff Johnson for $1.00.
Mail it to me and I'll send you a dollar. You make a buck for selling
something you don't have, cause God doesn't reall exist.
Now if you cannot do this, perhaps it is because on some other level, NOT
the level that you logically argue with your girlfriend about why you should
go see Rambo 55 instead of the chick flick she wants to see, but on a much
deeper level you really know there is a God.

What rubbish. Just because someone has a code of ethics does not mean that they believe in God at any level.

PS: never watched a Rambo movie.
pps: what you describe as "proof" does not fit my definition.

[Engovatov 0]

Quote

As simple of a reason as it may be, it worked. Look around you at the beauty in the world, did we create this? No. So somewhere there is something witha vision beyond ours.

You mix up your perception of reality with reality.

A good example: take a look at some fractal sets. Most people would agree they are beautiful, yet they are generated by simplest mathematical rules. The, that you perceive complex fractal images as "complex" and "beautiful" is just your perception - not the fact they they ARE complex and beautiful..

We are not an independent observer.

[JJohnson 0]

Eng!!!!! I was wondering when your physics mind was going to kick into this one. I'll ask you straight up: Do you believe in a God or not?

As for my perception....it is my reality. Reality IS perception. At one time we percieved that the world was flat. It was reality and governed how people acted and thought; until it was showm to be an incorrect perception.
All I am saying is that my percetion og a God worked for me, it may be incorrect, but noone has proff of it.
What I think is beautiful or not is not important. That someone other than me...or anybody (human being) I know made that beauty is important. If you wish to say that math did this, than God's name may be math. But Math has a great sense of humor and artistic flair doesn't he?

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[Engovatov 0]

Quote

Do you believe in a God or not?

I do. Writing up a Ph.D thesis titled "Searching for the dark side of the universe" (I studied black holes, and took part in an experiment for dark matter search) it is hard to ignore this issue..
I am not part of any organized religion though..

Quote

As for my perception....it is my reality. Reality IS perception.

That is a matter of definition. My point was, that observing any particular structure in your reality does not constitute proof that this structure has any particular meaning (or transcendental design of any kind) Beautiful and complex thing arise from simplest rules.