weid14 0 #26 July 15, 2002 Quote. I have to put my life on hold for a team and be there for practice and also camera's arent cheap as well as camera suits. Also you cant fun jump when your training and its hard work to pack and dub in a 20 minute call. Uhhh, that's what teams do typically. first and foremost is the team and it's established goals when at the DZ. all 5 people working together. The camera guy is just as important as any other member, IMO. He (or she) is part of the team. Now, what I don't understand is why as team members, they are paid while others are not. The argument can be said that the equipment is expensive. OK, so if people are paying to cover the equipment, doesn't the equipment then belong to everyone, and if ever sold or used for something else the team would get a rebate? If the camera person is not part of the team and is getting paid for a service, they are a hired gun and would be similar to a coach or packer. again, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #27 July 15, 2002 QuoteAccourding to the FAI... the only planes that can be used in competition are Twin Otters, Casa's and Skyvans That's interesting because the aircraft being used for the World meet in Gap France 2003 are Porters with a right hand door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #28 July 15, 2002 constructive criticism is ok... just can't yell at them... work on this, try to get this shot - ok... you suck, man you f#$#ed that up, I can't believ you call yourself a cameraman - not ok... I've seen a "team" yell at a pick-up camera guy for being late to a plane they did not bother to tell him he was supposed to be on... that does not qualify as contructive to a guy that ain't being paid. Guess what... that "team" jumped for the rest of the day w/ no camera because no one, not even the paid guys, would jump camera for them. JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #29 July 15, 2002 Interesting point about touching the team prior to exit. The last times I have done or seen this is in a tailgate aircraft on a bigger way. It's just a light touch and one more cue to help the vidiot get a tighter, cool shot of the tailgate exit (he/she is on the side of the tailgate) without interfering with the group. Another thing I learned from those who know much more than I. It's really fun.I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #30 July 15, 2002 I can't find it now.... but on thinking it might have been an USPA rule, but since the Comp manual is not on the site.... I can't tell. Anyone got a copy saved locally that could tell me for sure?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #31 July 15, 2002 Josh, I don't think that ANYONE has the right to talk to another that way, regardless of their "team" status. Where people can get away with that is with familiarity with their camera person, which has nothing to do with whether they are on a team or not. As far as missing the plane, it may or may not have been the camera persons fault. Regardless, though, whether the person is doing camera as a favor for a jump, or "on the team", it is everyone's responsibility to get all 5 people to the right aircraft. Steve_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #32 July 15, 2002 I have no freekin' idea where these people may have gotten the idea that RW can ONLY be done from certain aircraft. Quote USPA SCM 5-1.12 AIRCRAFT A. All aircraft must be similar in configuration, interior, and exterior, as determined by the Meet Director, who is responsible for ensuring that all teams receive and equal aircraft rotation within the limits of aircraft availability. B. Aircraft speed, torque, and flap setting at the time of exit, will be determined by Meet Director and the Chief Pilot, except: 1. Twin Otter: 85 to 95 knots (indicated) inclusive. 2. Cessna: 70 to 90 knots (indicated) inclusive. 3. DC-3: 90 to 100 knots (indicated) inclusive. So, to me this says the USPA doesn't really have an issue with any particular aircraft being used or not used. However, the FAI rules change every two years and they generically leave the space blank as to the exact aircraft their using. FAI 6.3.7 I believe they DO tell you before the meet starts. But in any case, you'll know when you get to the door. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #33 July 15, 2002 Quote Don't jump a lot of 4-way camera? not for a team though I was asked by a team going to nationals (and was passed over in favor of a full time RW videographer, though I am asked to sub on odd weeknds). I wrote too fast... I think I was trying to convey that the flying skills for the 4-way team itself are more demanding than the videographers flying skills (he has other duties, keeping cameras working, lugging video equipment, learning the exits and having good timing. flame away I am a freeflier I don't have wings and I can video 4 way reasonably well. now..8 way 16 way....err....well I have no doubt it is a whole different skill set."Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #34 July 16, 2002 QuoteAccourding to the FAI... the only planes that can be used in competition are Twin Otters, Casa's and Skyvans. FAI sanctioned event in Lahti, Finland (first World Games we were invited to) in 1997. They used an Mi8 helicopter for all events. 4-way, Style and Accuracy, and Freestyle. If this pic file isn't too big, I have a great photo of the bird in flight from that event I'll try to copy here. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #35 July 16, 2002 Well... that takes care of that.. I'm wondering way thats what the teams came back and reported now.... The Beech has a low tail, I wonder if that scared some of the jumpers....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #36 July 16, 2002 You're assuming of course, the 4-way has one mind, and not 3 or 4 with separate issues and agendas for self promotion and personal glory. BTW, it's helpful when all 4 members have the same rhythm on exit. As you know or may have heard, they can be difficult at times. (hehe)http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #37 July 16, 2002 Curt -- I assume you've already read this thread. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #38 July 16, 2002 Sure did! Thanks.http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
