That ol slippery slope (warning: politics)

[billvon 3,120]

Two things, actually.

First off, I posted a while back about Halliburton, Cheney's old company, that sold pulse neutron generators (required for most nuclear weapons) to Iraq. Well, they're back in the news - this time for getting a $300 million contract to, among other things, build a detention center in Guantanamo Bay.

My first reaction was "Wow, it's pretty amazing that Cheney's company pulled that one off during a time when corporations realize that their business practices are being watched closely." But I guess it helps to have friends in high places.

My second reaction was "Wait a minute . . . we're building millions of dollars worth of permanent secret government detention facilities?" Keep in mind that these are facilities that can be (and have been) used to detain US citizens, where they can be held forever with no trial, no lawyer visits, and no acknowledgement that they have been arrested. (Well, they haven't been arrested, I guess, just imprisoned.) One might hope that they are temporary, or will not be used too often, but the plans are for 2040 permanent cells. That's an awful lot of secret government prisoners. We threaten war on countries that do that to their own citizens.

Second, we are at war with the forces of evil and all that, and are ready to go to war with Iraq to prevent construction of nuclear weapons - which, as mentioned before, we are selling them the parts for. The good news has been that it's hard to get uranium (and especially plutonium) to build them, and the "axis of evil" doesn't have much in the way of nuclear reactors. It's fortunate for us that there's absolutely no way to make plutonium without nuclear reactors, although even commercial nuclear reactors generate very usable amounts of plutonium.

Just found out that we are selling two nuclear reactors, perfectly capable of making plutonium, to North Korea. I wonder if we'll be threatening to bomb them when the reactors we sold them actually start producing the stuff?

http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2002/08/06/1028157932941.htm

[PhreeZone 20]

Ah... Corp greed takes precidence over peace every time. What really surprizes me is how diversified Halliburton is. They are involved in highly technical electronics and construction? Thats an odd combo...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[fasterfaller 0]

U.S. defense contractor sells restricted materials to foreign government . U.S. government finds out and starts war . Defense contractor now sells more equipment to U.S. government to help fight war to recover material that it sold . What a viscous fucking circle .

[JDBoston 0]

Virtuous circle actually, if you look at it from the contractor's point of view. Capitalism at its best.

Joe

[antimike 0]

BLA BLA BLA Liberals

[billvon 3,120]

>BLA BLA BLA Liberals

That's right, dang it! Why can't they keep their traps shut so we can have a good old fashioned war, without all this complaining about civilian casualties and US soldiers getting killed? Heck, if they wanted to live forever they shoulda been politicians.

[JohnnyD 0]

Is it just me, or do other people experience headaches and nosebleeds while reading billvon's posts?

I guess its good to know something is at least trying to work inside the old noodle.

[kallend 2,151]

When operated as a power reactor (flux levels, burn up, etc) the Pu isotope produced is not the fissionable one. The conditions to produce fissionable Pu are not conducive to power production.

Of course, that doesn't mean anything if you have no control over the operating conditions.

Isn't capitalism wonderful.

[freeflir29 0]

Last I heard we were supposed to sell the North Koreans reactors that DON'T produce weapons grade material. Of course...I pretty much don't know shit about nuclear power production.

[billvon 3,120]

>When operated as a power reactor (flux levels, burn up, etc) the
>Pu isotope produced is not the fissionable one.

Pu-239 is created when fast neutrons from U-235 fission interact with the "inert", or depleted form, of uranium, U-238. In a normal PWR or BWR reactor, which are the only types we use for power in the US, fissioning U-235 creates fast neutrons. Some of these interact with U-238 to create (among other things) Pu isotopes; some are slowed by the moderator (water, in this case) and become slow, or thermal neutrons. The thermal neutrons sustain the fission reaction. Some neutrons, of course, simply give up their energy as heat.

There are over a dozen types of plutonium produced by a commercial nuclear reactor. Some (Pu-239, Pu-238) are useful for weapons and power production; most (Pu-240 for example) are useless. Once the fuel is "used up" and can no longer sustain a fission reaction, it can be reprocessed to remove the Pu from the fuel - indeed, this is how MOX fuel (used in some countries, not the US) is made. It is much harder to extract Pu-239 from commercial fuel, though, since it is more "poisoned" with less useful Pu isotopes

Now, once they have those spent fuel rods, they can't immediately make a bomb. First they have to separate out the plutonium, then they have to purify it to 90% or greater Pu-239. This is hard to do, and much of the Manhattan Project involved figuring out how to do it. It's lucky for us that it _is_ hard to do. It's still pretty dumb to give our proclaimed enemies a reactor because:

1. They may figure out how to extract the Pu-239 anyway; most of the info is available on the net.

2. They may get another country (perhaps another "axis of evil" member?) to reprocess it for them.

3. Even without doing anything, they could wrap a conventional bomb with spent nuclear fuel and make a very, very nasty terror weapon.

And who knows? Perhaps the next US gaffe will be to sell a nuclear fuel reprocessing plant to, say, Libya.

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

Pu-239 is created when fast neutrons from U-235 fission interact with the "inert", or depleted form, of uranium, U-238. In a normal PWR or BWR reactor, which are the only types we use for power in the US, fissioning U-235 creates fast neutrons. Some of these interact with U-238 to create (among other things) Pu isotopes; some are slowed by the moderator (water, in this case) and become slow, or thermal neutrons. The thermal neutrons sustain the fission reaction. Some neutrons, of course, simply give up their energy as heat.

There are over a dozen types of plutonium produced by a commercial nuclear reactor. Some (Pu-239, Pu-238) are useful for weapons and power production; most (Pu-240 for example) are useless. Once the fuel is "used up" and can no longer sustain a fission reaction, it can be reprocessed to remove the Pu from the fuel - indeed, this is how MOX fuel (used in some countries, not the US) is made. It is much harder to extract Pu-239 from commercial fuel, though, since it is more "poisoned" with less useful Pu isotopes

Now, once they have those spent fuel rods, they can't immediately make a bomb. First they have to separate out the plutonium, then they have to purify it to 90% or greater Pu-239. This is hard to do, and much of the Manhattan Project involved figuring out how to do it. It's lucky for us that it _is_ hard to do. It's still pretty dumb to give our proclaimed enemies a reactor because:

1. They may figure out how to extract the Pu-239 anyway; most of the info is available on the net.

2. They may get another country (perhaps another "axis of evil" member?) to reprocess it for them.

3. Even without doing anything, they could wrap a conventional bomb with spent nuclear fuel and make a very, very nasty terror weapon.

And who knows? Perhaps the next US gaffe will be to sell a nuclear fuel reprocessing plant to, say, Libya.

For the record, I was lost at "PU-239".

Be careful there Bill, I think the IQ can only go so high before it turns back to zero.

_________________________________________
Chris