This Pisses me Off

[SBS 0]

I do think this later type of ritual tends to lend itself all too easily to a "we're gonna kick your ass" type of mentallity and we've all seen enough of that ass kicking... haven't we?

----------------

My thoughts exactly. We remember out of respect...I don't find a Farakhaan (sp?) style "rallying of the troops" assembly to be respectful to anyone. On the other hand, to have it completely void of patriotism is no less filled with political agenda than its most extreme alternative.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[goose491 0]

Quote

Would everyone please take a second to read the OFFICAL responce and not the student papers version of the events? There is a big difference and they paper is not even close to the facts from the school here...

Here is what I believe to be the most important part of this responce... What I think the California Patriot is crying about!!

Quote

I will not allow the quiet moments from noon until 12:30 PM -- moments of prayer, grief, mourning, and reflection -- I will not allow these sacred moments to be misused for political purposes. And I deeply resent the implication that by planning this service in this way, we are unpatriotic. There is nothing more patriotic and American than honoring those lost in this horror.

YEAH!
Let's not exclude the possibility that one can be Patriotic without being political... Just love your coutry is all it takes... I don't think the school fails to do that at all.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[IronMike 0]

Other than the justice system, I think we have the best system of government in the world. Me running for office cannot change why Im not always proud to be an American.

On the global scale, we think our shit-don't-stink. 16000 Indians (the ones that don't live in TeePees) die in a typhoon and its in section C of the LA times under the Victorias Secret Ad. 9-11, in the grand scheme of history, was no big deal. It is only a perceived as a big deal because of the power of the media. If the Holocaust was televised, we would still be freaking out.

On the National scale, we are a nation with no true morals. Just like the asshole that stole the go fast tube for the sake of stealing. Our country is full of people like this. That is why me getting elected to anything will not change this.

As far as your sign in the yard thing, I CAN put that sign in my yard and the only laws I would be breaking if I put it in your yard would be tresspassing and littering. I don't hate Christians by the way, I consider myself one, I just can't stand Church.

Top 10 Reasons I am not Proud to be an American sometimes:
1. Jerry Springer
2. OJ Simpson
3. No Autobahn
4. Welfare
5. Civil Lawsuits
6. All women wear tops except at expensive bars
7. Televangelists
8. Were friends with Canada
9. Drugs are illegal
10. Jump prices just increased

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I don't hate Christians by the way, I consider myself one, I just can't stand Church.

I wasn't trying to imply that you weren't, it was just a hypothetical example.

Your reference about the LA Times, I agree with you there, but that's a whole nother arguement about the media (I don't like the media, btw).

As for the sign, if it was put in my yard and I found it offensive it could be considered a hate crime, but anyways...


I just got a call from Para-service and my shiney new canopy is in the mail, I'm too excited and happy to try to continue my side of the discussion. Maybe in a couple hours...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnnyD 0]

Wow. Having spent time in Berkeley, this does not surprise me one bit. It is an extremely diverse and liberal community that supports peoples' opinions and viewpoints. Last semester, a Muslim group (I believe they were Muslim, but maybe they were Palestineian-either way) took over and occupied a main lecture hall on campus for over a week. This is actually a pretty normal occurrence there. For comparison, I have also been to the Texas A&M campus and found it equally strange. Its another universe down there with its own language, values and viewpoints. Which is right? Neither. Isn't America great?

[Deuce 1]

Quote

It is an extremely diverse and liberal community that supports peoples' opinions and viewpoints.

I was in ROTC at Cal in the early 80's. Admiral Nimitz was a Cal grad, and had left a ton of really neat stuff from the Japanese surrender ceremony for his little library there.

The diverse and liberal community burned the ROTC building and all it's contents to the ground.

Tolerance. They couldn't tolerate the presence of a building and it was detroyed in an act of violence.

[JohnnyD 0]

>Tolerance. They couldn't tolerate the presence of a building and it was detroyed in an act of violence.

Overly tolerant. You may be correct, but at what point do you cease to be tolerant? I don't know, but I think it should be somewhere before criminal acts are committed.

[Sinkster 0]

Thomas Jefferson -- intolerant of King George
George Washington -- intolerant of British Troops
Frederick Douglas -- intolerant of Slavery
Susan B. Anthony -- intolerant of Only Men Voting
Amy Charmichael -- intolerant of Child Prostitution
Dietrich Bonhoeffer -- intolerant of Anti-Semitism
Winston Churchill -- intolerant of Hitler
Abraham Lincoln -- intolerant of Slavery
Lech Walesa -- intolerant of Communism
Mother Teresa -- intolerant of Abortion

INTOLERANCE IS A BEAUTIFUL THING !

[carbon 0]

Quote

This is WRONG, the Vice Chancellor of UC Berkeley has already stated that they would be passing out the Red white and blue ribbons, not the WHITE ones as previously reported by the PATRIOT, a school newspaper. LET me rephrase that last sentence, the Patriot is not THE school newspaper, but a newspaper for the conservative student voice at UC Berkeley.
Get your facts straight
VC Berdahl's Response
UC Berkeley's agenda for Sept 11

The color of the ribbons isn't important. The important point is the banning of the flag. If I want to wear a flag on my label or carry a flag in my hand, I should be able to.

-Carbon

[freeflir29 0]

UC Berkley=Liberal Communists.....Er I mean.....Students..... What a bunch of idiots. I say we send them to Iraq.

[lummy 4]

Quote

The color of the ribbons isn't important. The important point is the banning of the flag. If I want to wear a flag on my label or carry a flag in my hand, I should be able to.

And you can.... What's stopping you? you can get up on the podium and sing the star spangled banner if you want. No one is stopping you.
The whole point is, you take an article that not only has been debunked, but is nothing more than propaganda. One would get more truth from a Rush Limbaugh sermon.

But what do I know? Sorry to interupt, I just thought people might like to know they are overreacting....

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[Luna 0]

In the article that you linked to, it was made very clear that the students who put this thing together chose to distribute white ribbons as opposed to red white and blue ones to avoid offending anyone. So, in that respect, the original article was in fact correct. The school then stepped in and told them that they were to distribute the red white and blue ones. This was done after the article was published.

Some may say that this is supposed to be a memorial for those who lost their lives, and not all of them were Americans, so we shouldn't display our flag or our colors so we won't offend anyone (several of the students have been quoted as saying this, despite the school's official opinion, so this has not been "debunked," and still stands as fact). The fact of the matter though is that the attack was on America. The terrorists were directing their anger at the United States, and in the process managed to kill many people from many other nations. We should mourn them, of course, but I don't think it is right to say that because some of the victims were not Americans that we should put away our flags, hide our patriotism and try not to offend those other nationalities. They were killed in an attack on this country, while in this country, and so I think that they would all understand if this country comes together in full patriotic regalia in their memory. I don't consider it a political issue at all.

And, to be fair to the original poster, the post was made first thing this morning, and although the press conference was held yesterday debunking the story, the wire stories that I saw on that press conference were dated today, most likely not widely available until after the original post. In other words, I don't think that it was malicious spreading of misinformation. Thank you for alerting the readers to the correction, which seems to be about as widely available as the original story, meaning not very easy to find!

Luna

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[jose 0]

The people that think like this are so extreme that it is my opinion that they are close to exile from the USA. What should they care anyway? They apparently hate their own country in the first place, that is if they are even born here in the first place.

Why couldn't these people been in the Twin Towers? OR better yet, have 242 of their brothers killed like I did on that day. Im sure their fucked up beliefs would be different then. I understand that this country gives us the right to free speech, but when YOUR beliefs, being the minority, are forced upon the majority, you have NO RIGHT. Sit down and STFU already.

Ready for the flames, cause I know I'll get some on this. But if you were not there, or shortly thereafter like I was, you will never understand.

[PhreeZone 20]

So.. how would you respond to a 6th or 7th generation American that is being tolerent and open minded instead of refering to immigrants?

I personally agree that the event should be about remembering and not make it into a political scene about flags and what country is on the list to be assulted next. When citizens were being killed by the dozens in terrorism in Northern Ireland did they hold parades every week? When Car bombs were going off in France were people being called "unpatriotic" for not running up a flag to support the dead? Mourning and rememberence of the people that die should always take priority over material things.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[kmcguffee 0]

Quote

By its premise, the entire earth is sloped and everything that's a little bit loose slides into California.

ROFLMAO, I've got to write that one down! That is the best explanation I've heard so far. The 9th Circus, errr I mean Circuit Court has been the genesis of a majority of the criminal loving precedents in the justice system. Didn't some town in California hold a local vote and vote against attacking Afghanistan? When is that town going to secede?

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[nicknitro71 0]

Every year in Berkeley it rains more Nobel prices then any other University.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[billvon 3,120]

>The people that think like this are so extreme that it is my opinion
> that they are close to exile from the USA. What should they care
> anyway? They apparently hate their own country in the first place,
> that is if they are even born here in the first place.

There are some of us that, on occasion, disagree with what our country is doing, and try to change it. That does not mean we "hate the US," any more than Lisa hates her son because he sometimes does things she disagrees with.

>Why couldn't these people been in the Twin Towers?

So there are American citizens who you wish to see killed for their beliefs? Sorry, that's so extreme that I can't even see where it comes from. The people who flew the aircraft into the towers had attitudes like that.

> I understand that this country gives us the right to free speech, but
> when YOUR beliefs, being the minority, are forced upon the
> majority, you have NO RIGHT. Sit down and STFU already.

The minority voted for Bush. He still won, and that decision was forced upon the larger number of people who voted for Gore. Sometimes you have to accept this; it's how our government works.

I agree that anyone should not be able to impose personal beliefs on others. But that does not mean they cannot speak their minds, or wear what they want, or sing what they want, or wave what they want. By the same token, no one has any right to not be offended by, well, just about anyone.

>Ready for the flames, cause I know I'll get some on this. But if you
> were not there, or shortly thereafter like I was, you will never
> understand.

My brother in law came within a few blocks of "being involved" in 9-11. I came within 20 minutes of being on Flight 11. I would not claim that I understand any better than anyone else; I do not believe your visit to the site later gives you any better understanding than mine or anyone else's. There is nothing to understand; it was an act of terror. At best we can deal with it and move on.

[SBS 0]

Why couldn't these people been in the Twin Towers? OR better
yet, have 242 of their brothers killed like I did on that day.

------------

I'm sorry...I can accept upset and anger, and will say that I will never understand what you and others went through who were involved in 9-11.

To wish ill on anyone is just sick, though. Now it's not even just them, but their loved ones who may or may not share in their beleifs.

That's just messed up.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[Skyrad 0]

Political correctness can be crazy at times, but is it this time? The victims of 9/11 came from 83 countries not just the US, and wern't they killed because one group of people belived that they know God better than another group of people? Both beliving that the others are heretics.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[nws01 0]

I'd rather be pissed off than pissed on!

[wmw999 2,589]

[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][size 2]

Quote

I have the constitutional right to offend you.

Quote from AggieDave:
Actually, that's not totally true. You have the constitutional right to have your own beliefs, opinions, etc. However, if those beliefs/opinions cross the line into infringing on my rights, your right stops. That goes both ways. Example: I'm a Christian, you're not. You put a sign in my yard saying you hate Christians. I'm offended, but you've now stepped on my right to be whatever religion I want to be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, actually, he has the right to express his opinions. He doesn' t have the right to trespass on your property (that would be bought-and-paid-for, not public) to express them. However, you have to ask him politely to leave if you want him to, or ask for police assistance. You can't just kick the shit out of him because he's a godless commie who offends you.
Your right not to be offended ends long before someone else's right to say something offensive ends. One's responsibility not to put yourself into positions where you're likely to be offended is significant. And politeness matters too -- if you say something in a forum where you know it will be offensive, then you can expect others to be offended, and some of them to be as impolite as you were to express that opionion in the first place.
If whomever you offended has enough friends, then you'll never get on a good load again. Or something like that...
This is an opinion, voice freely in a public forum. [/size][/font]

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lummy 4]

Not quite off topic, but just thought I'd share a comic that was in last weeks paper.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[wlie 0]

All these political correctness horseshit is getting way out of control.

Who gives a rat's ass whether or not an action offends anyone.

You can't keep everybody happy. The only way is to keep your mouth shut.

And that's such a commie thing.

My other ride is the relative wind.

[coho21 0]

Quote

I CAN put that sign in my yard and the only laws I would be
breaking if I put it in your yard would be tresspassing and littering.

Actually, and I hate to be the up-tight one here, that's not entirely true. Back in the 1960's there were many Supreme Court cases dealing with this exact event. (read: burning crosses)The court ruled that not only is it tresspassing but it is also an infringement upon an individual's first amendment right to freedom of religion.


Sorry I don't know the exact case off the top of my head. But I could look it up if you really wanted to know.

J
YSD #0009***

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Back in the 1960's there were many Supreme Court cases dealing with this exact event. (read: burning crosses)The court ruled that not only is it tresspassing but it is also an infringement upon an individual's first amendment right to freedom of religion.

That is what I was referring to.

Also, in the State of Texas, if you are on my property commiting a crime (i.e. vandalising, etc) I have the right to shoot you on the spot. Although, if the crime was vandalising by tossing toliet paper over my trees and you were unarmed, the property owner would be eaten alive by the Lawyers...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."