This Pisses me Off

[carbon 0]

http://www.calpatriot.org/issueupdate/911.html
School-sponsored 9-11 Remembrance Day to exclude patriotic symbols and religious references
By Steve Sexton
The "Star Spangled Banner" is too patriotic, divisive and political, so organizers of UC Berkeley's day-long tribute to the victims and heroes of 9-11 are excluding it. "God Bless America" is doubly excluded. Not only is it patriotic, but it also mentions God, something else that is taboo next Wednesday.
The Sept. 11 Day of Remembrance, sponsored by the Chancellor's office, the student body government and the Graduate Assembly, will also feature student leaders distributing white ribbons, instead of the red, white and blue ones they had originally planned.
"We thought that may be just too political, too patriotic," said Hazel Wong, chief organizer for the Associated Students of the University of California (ASUC). "We didn't want anything too centered on nationalism-anything that is 'Go U.S.A.'"
Wong said the event organizers are "trying to steer away" from anything political, and that, she said, includes singing the National Anthem and displaying the red, white, and blue. She said they don't want politics disrupting mourning and grieving.
"To hold a Sept. 11 memorial service devoid of patriotism is counterintuitive," said Mark Engberg, a UC Berkeley freshman. "Holding a service without patriotism is like holding a presidential debate without mentioning politics. It doesn't work."
Jessica Quindel, president of the Graduate Assembly, a key player in the planning, said the day's events are about more than just grieving. She said the day is, in fact, about politics. And it's not just about Sept. 11, but also the aftermath, including President Bush's response to the terrorist attacks.
"We are trying to stay away from supporting Bush," Quindel said. "We don't want to isolate people on this campus who disagree with the reaction to Sept. 11."
Quindel, a self avowed hater of the American Flag, the federal government, and the "Star Spangled Banner," said she is still patriotic. "It depends on your definition of patriotism. Everyone has a different definition," she said.
Patriotic songs may exclude and offend people, Quindel said, "because there are so many people who don't agree with the songs." "God Bless America" is "very exclusive" because it mentions God, she said. Though plans call for four university music and song groups to perform at an evening vigil, not a single patriotic song will be sung, at the behest of organizers. Instead, songs of remembrance will be offered up.
Also, to prevent the exclusion of those who don't believe in the American Flag, there will be no tribute to the flag. "The flag has become a symbol of U.S. aggression towards other countries. It seems hostile," Quindel said.
Quindel will be one of two people selecting speakers for short speeches by students during a noontime event on Memorial Glade. Students must pre-register indicating the topic of the comments they wish to make-classifying them into categories of mourning, religious and political.
That system doesn't wash with Robb McFadden, director of the California College Republicans. "If Quindel and her Marxist comrades are selecting the speakers, I think there are serious violations of fundamental fairness," he said. "How can we expect freedom of speech to be filtered through such a radical political ideologue?"
Scheduled speakers at the Memorial Glade assembly include Chancellor Robert Berdahl, ASUC President Jesse Gabriel, and Quindel. They will likely speak, according to Wong, about peace.
Those who aren't selected to speak by Quindel and her undergraduate counterpart, Gabriel, will have an opportunity to speak at an open microphone assembly in the evening. But if last year's open microphone assembly on the night the attacks occurred is any guide, there will likely not be an opportunity for patriotic speech Wednesday. At last Sept. 11's vigil, members of the Berkeley College Republicans were shouted down while speaking of patriotism.
The primary planner for Chancellor Berdahl, Colleen Rovetti, director of university events and ceremonies, said she did not know avoiding patriotism was an overriding objective of the student planners. She echoed remarks by other organizers stressing their intent to make the event a memorial and not a protest.
Gabriel said organizers aim to "separate political beliefs from mourning." "Singing 'God Bless America' may prompt people to shout it down," he said.
Similar fears of aggression toward the flag prompted Berkeley's fire chief to order American flags removed from fire trucks. City leaders worried protesters would attack the flag and comprise firefighters' ability to do their job. After national outcry, the flags were returned to the fire trucks.
Members of the Berkeley College Republicans attended the student senate meeting last night to urge their elected leaders to alter the plans for the Sept. 11 memorial to include patriotic themes.
"If we leave patriotism and religion out of this event, we'd be reducing the memorial to a bunch of anti-American whining, said Republican ASUC Senator Paul LaFata. "Patriotism has a place on this campus, and by excluding it, the ASUC has done exactly what they wanted to avoid. They have offended students."
The Republicans were countered by those supporting the decision of the event organizers. The decision's proponents argued that patriotism leads to nationalism. They also said patriotism would exclude students who are not American citizens.
Quindel said it would be inappropriate for the university to endorse patriotic themes, and urged students to express their views at the open microphone sessions.

-Carbon

[AggieDave 6]

Wow! And just when I thought that California couldn't get any worst.

Then again, I'm one extremely patriotic guy, as long as I can remember I've been that way and by god Sept 11, 2002, I'm willing to bet the large majority of the country will be too. I guess stuff like that just absolutely bugs the shit out of me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[sunshine 2]

That has got to be one of the stupidest things i've ever heard. People take things to extremes when trying "not to offend anyone". Stupid stupid stupid.....gee, now i'm kinda pissed off too.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[flyhi 24]

When I told my father I wanted to go to school in California, he explained the sloped earth theory to me. By its premise, the entire earth is sloped and everything that's a little bit loose slides into California.

Since then, I have lived in California twice and was always amazed when parents were excited by their children getting accepted to Berkeley. What's the matter, couldn't get into Stanford?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Sinkster 0]

That's a joke right?

[IronMike 0]

Show me in the constitution where you have the right not to be offended! Fucking everybody in this country seems to think that it is their birthright to never be offended. The reality is, I have the constitutional right to offend you. Everybody also thinks they deserve millions if something bad happens to them. People are suing the airlnes because of Sept. 11! None of the victims deserve money. Shit happens. That is what life insurance is for. Nobody donates millions to the family of the poor guy killed by a drunk driver, just as tragic but on a smaller scale. They are also suing Saudi Arabia and a bunch of other camel jockeys because they harbored terrorists. Why didn't we sue Kansas for harboring Timothy McVeigh? I honestly am not proud to be an American most of the time. This country (except Texas) is full of freeloading people with no real morals or convictions.

By the way, I pissed off Jerry Jeff Walker really bad a few years ago. I was supposed to put his guitar on Mary Kay Ash's Gulfstream III because he was playing a benefit concert for retards or something. I forgot and left it in my trunk. Im sure he still hates me.

[nicknitro71 0]

Politics and religion should be separated, period. “In god we trust” on our currency is unconstitutional as well as mentioning god in the anthem. Being patriotic has nothing to do with being religious or delusional for that matter. If you want to be controlled and brain washed go right ahead but don’t impose it to everybody like the US government is doing. Belief in god only exists because of fear of death and religions only exist to control people, nothing less, nothing more. By the way, 9/11 happened because of belief in god and religion in case you forgot and being christian is no better than being muslim. When you skydive you’d better put all your faith in yourself because in case something goes to shit there is no god to help you.

Blue skies

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Sinkster 0]

oh boy, here we go again! I'm staying out of this one, but I just want to say that my relationship with God is not based on fear, but love.

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us." --1 John 4:18-19

[goose491 0]

Do you guys think this is really that crazy? This Qunidel person seem to want nothing more than to Morne the departed... As soon as the flags are a wavin and the songs about American are being sung... well doesn't it take away from pure thoughts of the lives lost??? Also, let's not forget the multiculturism of the "World" trade centre. There were people from all over this rock in those buildings.

I may just be playing devils advocate here but it seems to me that Quindel is trying to replace a big 'can't stop the U. S of A!!!' rally in favor of a large gathering to honor those whose lives were taken/affected by the attacks.

Same thing goes where God is concerned... You'll see Quindels best concept is that she does not want to 'exclude' anyone. Personally, I think this is one case where all distractions (and things that could cause disagreements among the living) should be omited in favour of people coming together.

And God wont mind that he's not invited... He'll probably crash the party anyway... and only half the people there will know about it. ehehe.

eh?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[jraf 0]

Now I am very far from being nationalistic, I am non religious and am against waving the flag without good reason, but this is going a BIT TOO FAR. For crying out loud, there are certain occasions that we as a nation, whatever race, whatever religion, whatever political orientation have to unite. Sept. 11 last year was a shattering experience. This year we SHOULD fly our flag, we SHOULD sing our songs and we SHOULD unite in mourning. God is not an offensive word! We all perceive it's meaning differently, but it is a universal word. The US Flag is not offensive. If it offends anyone in this country, then they are welcome to leave. I have traveled extensively and know that a lot of people come to the US not for the love of freedom or our principles but for economic reasons. Well quite honestly if they don't like it here then I don't care if I offend them. The actions of people at UC Berkeley are dispicable. It just seems to me that if there is a God, then obviously he has not endowed them with brains. MORONS!

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[lummy 4]

This is WRONG, the Vice Chancellor of UC Berkeley has already stated that they would be passing out the Red white and blue ribbons, not the WHITE ones as previously reported by the PATRIOT, a school newspaper. LET me rephrase that last sentence, the Patriot is not THE school newspaper, but a newspaper for the conservative student voice at UC Berkeley.

Get your facts straight

VC Berdahl's Response

UC Berkeley's agenda for Sept 11

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[mountainman 0]

Aren't we used to this kind of stuff coming out of California yet?

I know I am.

http://www.brandonandlaura.com

[Keith 0]

Egads!!! Read the rest of the thread. It's propaganda published by a conservative rag. It's not fact.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Sebazz1 2]

Naw it's just Bezerkley... Crazy town they got there. Gotta laugh at them. The U.S wouldn't be the U.S. without diversity and diffrences of opinion. Thank goodness we are all different and have the right to be

[PhreeZone 20]

Lummy... now why did you go and intrupt something by throwing facts into it? ITs a whole lot easier to get mad at something with out those pesky facts in the way...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[pop 0]

Quote

Thank goodness we are all different

AMEN!!!

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[SBS 0]

I think that other guy mentioned something reasonable in the article...it seems more to be the advancement of these neomarxist beliefs, more than a time of rememberance...it's not mourning so much as a protest, like they mentioned.

I do agree that being overly patriotic can detract from the significance of the event, but this is just over the top rediculous, working towards promoting this person's own political agenda.

If they are that afraid of offending anyone, they should just not do anything on Wednesday. I think that would offend less people than this bullshit.

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[ADRNALN 0]

I hear Mike!!!!! 100%!!!!

[sar911 0]

I am not offended at all. Being that this is a free country, I think that it is geat that they can leave and go to the communist country of their choice!!!
You want me to accept your right to not to be an American and all that it has stood for good and bad then accept my GOD given right to take pride in America and show it !!!

[PhreeZone 20]

Would everyone please take a second to read the OFFICAL responce and not the student papers version of the events? There is a big difference and they paper is not even close to the facts from the school here...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dreamsville 0]

Maybe doing nothing is better than stirring things up, but sometimes I am reminded that people have varying agendas. Although some items in the article may be open to question, the theme resembles things that have occured in The "Peoples'" Republic of Berkeley in the past.

When some of these people have to go out and live life in the real world they may find out things about life that include examples such as:

1) "In God We Trust" is probably on the currency because there is a groundswell of opinion to leave it on there, no groundswell to remove it, or some combination of the two.

2) Not everyone is politically correct.

3) There are no insurance policies against being offended.

4) Many patriotic civilians and military service people have helped these whiners in some way at some time, whether or not they deserved it (I actually don't think some people will ever learn or believe this).

... and so on ...

God Bless America, Harry

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[AggieDave 6]

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By the way, I pissed off Jerry Jeff Walker really bad a few years ago.

*shrug* whatever dude.

Quote

I have the constitutional right to offend you.

Actually, that's not totally true. You have the constitutional right to have your own beliefs, opinions, etc. However, if those beliefs/opinions cross the line into infringing on my rights, your right stops. That goes both ways. Example: I'm a Christian, you're not. You put a sign in my yard saying you hate Christians. I'm offended, but you've now stepped on my right to be whatever religion I want to be.

The analogy using the drunk driver doesn't apply. This wasn't just some people dieing, this was a direct attack on the American way of life. If you don't agree with the American way of life, start working to change it. Run for office, support persons running for offices that you agree with, write your congressman(women), senator, whatever.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dreamsville 0]

Phree, where's the response? Do you have a link?

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[goose491 0]

Quote

I hear Mike!!!!! 100%!!!!

Yeah, me too! Far too many cry-babies nowadays... makes me

SBS you too. It seems everyone has hidden agendas when it comes to things like this... And whereby I would be quite distraught to see flag burning, I would still maintain that efforts should be made to keep steering this type of ceremony away from a flag waving one. I do think this later type of ritual tends to lend itself all too easily to a "we're gonna kick your ass" type of mentallity and we've all seen enough of that ass kicking... haven't we?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[lummy 4]

I am so SOOO sorry.. I won't let it happen again.. PROMISE!!!!

The response was in my original post....

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1