Affordable Jet Jumps (DIVERDRIVER PLS RD)

[diverdriver 7]

Quote

Chris... whats your thoughts on some of the jumpships of the past? The Beech 18's, the Beavers, the Twin Bo's?

They served their purpose during their era. But I feel that we have lost some of the institutional knowledge on how to run those planes with the widest margin of safety. The cost of turbine jump planes has come down to a point where we see them much more. I believe turbine engines are much more reliable than pistons. Turbines (in my opinion) are easier to start and don't sucumb to "shock cooling" (pilot technique). In that regard they are superior and safer. They do convert Beech 18s to turbines. But finding pilots with enough tailwheel time to handle a suped up Beech 18 is tough. Not impossible.

Any plane you have can be safe or dangerous. It can depend on how it is run and who is caring for it. Just look at my site under "Accidents" and you can see what is going on in the industry.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[howardwhite 6]

"If the new PC-XII weren't single engine aircraft I'd love to see them in use for jump ops down the road. "

Assuming you're talking about the Pilatus PC-12 (not all *that* new), I had the same thought. But I talked about it with a Pilatus dealer pilot who is also a jumper (and I got a ride in it.) The current problem is that the door is structural so cannot be removed or replaced with a jump door.

HW

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

DD, just curious. Ever been in a stall situation?

I think your question is "Have I ever stalled a jump plane." And the answer is no.

But have you been in a stall situation? Were you on the Otter when the pilot from Houston stalled it last August? It wasn't fun!

[eeneR 3]

the wheels are spinning in eeneR's head!!!!

Hey Hon...I think I need to trade my Yukon in for one of these things....

Of Course....the montly pament would be insain, and I would not be able to get to work.,..but those are just minor details.....

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Zlew 0]

I think the one engine fear might have a lot to do with where you fly. If you are in an area without many trees or water, and tons of open fileds you might fear a one engiine plane less than you would a noob pilot death rolling the twin when they lose an engine on take off (too slow....or maybe feather the wrong prop.....oops). Put the flaps down on something like a porter even with a full load on board and you can set it down slow enough to get you a ticket for driving too slow in a 55mph zone. For me, I'd rather land off the dz in an engine out situation, or off the end of the runway nice and slow than be low and slow with a twin (queen air....SHUDDER...). It's a shitty place to be either way. Dont get me wrong, I don't FEAR twins at all. Love a twotter or skyvan (not getting into that fight now). I just disagree a little bit with the idea that the plane has to be twin to be a good jump plane.

skies
Z

[billvon 3,119]

>easier to stall, and much more tempting to the jumpers to pile up
> close to the door on exit, making it even easier to stall.

Depends entirely upon the design of the plane, not the type of door. You can easily stall a B90 King Air if you put everyone in the back, even though it has a side door exit.

If anything, the ability to pile jumpers near the door makes it a more effective skydiving aircraft. It is easier to launch large chunks from tailgates; it's certainly easier to do tandems. AFF is, I think, easier. 4 way is easier from a side door; 8-way could go both ways; 16 and 20 way is much easier out of a tailgate.

[billvon 3,119]

>Yeah, that whole "one engine" things gives me the jitters too.

You should be aware that there are plenty of skydiving twins out there that cannot climb on one engine. At Perris several years ago, they had an engine-out on takeoff and could not climb out of ground effect (10-15 feet.) Due to some remarkable flying by the pilot they circled the field and landed with minimal damage (nosewheel collapse when they ran out of runway.) An earlier incident (1991?) resulted in several deaths when a pilot lost an engine on takeoff then feathered the working engine.

There is an old saying about twins that the purpose of the second engine is to get you to the scene of the accident more quickly. It is all too often true.

[judedre 0]

HERE
is me practising an exit out of the eclipse plane i work for nimbus jets we bought quite a few..

[Viking 0]

you go ahead and try jump out of that thing. When it lands i will peel you goofy ass off the leading edge of the wing. That plane will be nothing more than a cheap buisness jet.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

You should be aware that there are plenty of skydiving twins out there that cannot climb on one engine.

Yep...we lost an engine on the Otter a few months ago. It was about 40 Ft off the runway and just past the decision point when the Beta light came on for the right engine. It was hot and the aircraft was fully loaded. The pilot originally called out a mayday and said he was going into the field off the end of the runway. By the grace of God he was able to ride a ridge thermal while getting turned around and made it back just fine. It was by the skin of the teeth though. Had the engine actually gone into Beta range it wouldn't have mattered how many engines he had running.

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

My jumping at SDC has nothing to do with my view of jump aircraft. Only my 7 years of flying skydivers and 3,000+ hours flying jump aircraft. How many hours flying do you have Andy? And if you want to send a personal attack on my view I suggest a PM next time.

I feel a little cockyness there! I usually listen more to humble beings; but that's me.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[billvon 3,119]

>you go ahead and try jump out of that thing. When it lands i will peel
> you goofy ass off the leading edge of the wing.

I've always wanted to jump from Qualcomm's Challenger - it has a baggage door big enough to exit from, right under the left engine, and it can be opened in flight. (Aerodynamically, that is, not legally.)

[PhreeZone 20]

>You should be aware that there are plenty of skydiving twins out there that cannot climb on one engine.

The only one that I'm aware of (I'm sure people can correct me here) that is required in its type rating to maintain a min climb level on one engine is a Casa 212. Its a larger aircraft then the rest of normal jump planes on ground weight and its over the 15000 pound mark.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Craig 0]

Quote

Assuming you're talking about the Pilatus PC-12 (not all *that* new), I had the same thought. But I talked about it with a Pilatus dealer pilot who is also a jumper (and I got a ride in it.) The current problem is that the door is structural so cannot be removed or replaced with a jump door.

On Pilatus' web site it lists "para drops" as a role, and has a cabin configuration pic for the drop configuration as well. Maybe it can be modified to support jump operations? It is under the PC-12 Multi-role aircraft.

[Luminous 0]

Not sure what stall your referring to, or what pilot. I recall a few years back at Ballunar when Houston pilot stalled Otter during climbout, but you said last August.
I've been in "almost stalled" situations where we felt the plane bucking and let go/pushed to get the heck out of there.
I've seen video, heard lots of stories, and your correct, I've not heard anyone say "Gee.. That was fun".

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

"Gee.. That was fun".

We stalled our Otter not long ago. It was on Jump run with good power going. It was strange...it didn't do anything too crazy. Just kind of dropped out from under us. We had 7 people hanging on the outside. The pilot thought we had gotten off the airplane until he looked back and saw people floating and clawing for the door. It was a learning experience for him.

[Luminous 0]

I like 2 engines due to fact that normally the plane can maintain current altitude or desend safely with just one engine. Few years back the "old" Alpha Lima at SDH blew left engine at 10K. Tom just yelled back "Jump Run" and everybody, including the AFF & Tandoms left and he brought it back down.
I look at takeoffs as a necessary evil to getting in the air, doesn't matter if it's one engine or two. And I don't unbuckle till 1500ft cause I'm not leaving before that unless the pilot does.
And last, just because I like 2 engines doesn't hinder me from getting into a one engine aircraft. As long as it's not belching smoke and backfiring to bad.Damn... I really should get some work done today.

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[TEB6363 0]

Quote

HERE
is me practising an exit out of the eclipse plane i work for nimbus jets we bought quite a few..

It looks like you have the wing removed for jumping. That would keep you from hitting it, but would suck for the pilot...

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

[billvon 3,119]

>I like 2 engines due to fact that normally the plane can maintain
> current altitude . . .

As I mentioned, that's not always true. Combine a hot day with the "normal" overloads you see at a DZ (i.e. they assume 23 190 lb jumpers and have a beefy load) and some near-timed-out-engines and you'd be lucky to maintain a 100fpm descent with some older -20 otters.

>or desend safely with just one engine.

Any aircraft can descend safely after losing one engine. In many cases, singles are safer after losing an engine - there is no doubt what has to be done, and that is to land immediately. It's safer to land an aircraft under control in a forest than out of control on a runway, and in a single, your only job is to land a glider under control once you lose an engine for good. In a multi, you have to deal with thrust assymetry, minimum available power, Vmc - and you still have to land.

>Few years back the "old" Alpha Lima at SDH blew left engine at 10K.
> Tom just yelled back "Jump Run" and everybody, including the AFF
> & Tandoms left and he brought it back down.

We had the same problem on our 206 at 10k, and the tandem and video guy left and just landed off, no problem. (Pilot managed to fix the engine before landing.)

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

As long as it's not belching smoke and backfiring to bad.

So, you're saying you have something against Cessnas?

[Viking 0]

Quote

I've always wanted to jump from Qualcomm's Challenger - it has a baggage door big enough to exit from, right under the left engine, and it can be opened in flight. (Aerodynamically, that is, not legally.)

What is the challenger? got a pictures of it?

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[judedre 0]

i was wondering how long it would take to see if anyone noticed there were no wings on the jet..lol

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

Pilot managed to fix the engine before landing

Heheehehehee..How pissed off were the tandem guys....

[TEB6363 0]

I'm not the fastest kid on the block, but some things just don't look right

Once the plane takes off, you're gonna have to land - Might as well jump out!!

[Zlew 0]

Something I would be interesed to talk to a jump pilot about is the no power landing speeds of a given jump plane at gross. For example, I'm pretty sure if I had to land with the plane off the airport (or at the end of the runwa) I'd rather be in something that can land as slow as a porter (caravan too maybe?) than a KingAir.
How fast does a Twotter need to fly to land? How slow can ya go?
Skyvan? CASA? etc?
Assuming its just the loss of power, it seems to me, that landing in the sticks slowly gives you better odds than landing in the sticks fast.